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Old 01-03-2008, 11:25 PM   #226
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And (if Obama wins) those who doubt Obama will probably say he's done nothing come 2012, whether or not he does in fact do anything.
QFT. It's sad that we've fostered a political system where the actual plans carried out by a president are rarely truly judged for what they accomplish for the common good, which is what a true democracy is. It's taken almost 7 years for the majority of the country to begin to realize that Bush's policies are what's been moving our country in the wrong direction. It's not a Democrat issue or a Republican issue. It's a competency issue. Obama could fix everything Bush fucked up, and make the rest of the world fall in love with us again (that won't happen, obviously. I was just being very hypothetical), and his cynics still would find ways to criticize him. It would be the same with any candidate.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:26 PM   #227
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Then why is Clinton vs. McCain your first choice? I'm talking best option from the standpoint of the best candidate from each side, so even if the one I prefer loses, it'll still be alright.
Oh, I gotcha. Well, the best Democrat of the bunch just dropped out about 5 minutes ago, so....
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:26 PM   #228
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Beaten by that rare clean and well-spoken black fella. . .
touche'
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:27 PM   #229
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The one thing I was always not sold on re: Obama is that I feel like he says all the right things, but they rarely have any content.

That said, he is absolutely inspirational when you watch him. My father just saw the speech, he is a man who hasn't voted in 18 years and he said he'd vote for Obama. He makes you feel like you can actually do anything - a black man who was the first editor of the Harvard Law Journal (people have no idea what an accomplishment this is), who won one of the whitest states, and who has finally figured out how to bring young people to the polls. That is remarkable, whether or not you agree with him.

Republicans should pay attention. They have a guy sitting in the white house whom people voted for because they thought they could have a beer with him. The amount of hypocrisy about Obama's lack of experience is stunning given that Bush was a failure at everything he ever did. But, if the country was willing to vote for a guy they want to go to a bar with, then you should fear the guy who makes people think that they really can achieve the American dream. I would not want to run against him.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:28 PM   #230
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I certainly don't feel this way. What this country needs is not guy who barely has any political accomplishments to his name. I don't feel disillusioned in the slightest. I'd be much happier with a guy who knows how politics and the world works than with a guy who plans to learn as he goes along.
True. Remember that one guy. . .fella from Illinois. . .very little experience, lost most elections he ran for and somehow ended up in the White House. . .what was his name? Oh, yes. Abraham Lincoln. Good thing this inexperienced man didn't get in to office when the nation was in a time of serious crisis.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:30 PM   #231
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I certainly don't feel this way. What this country needs is not guy who barely has any political accomplishments to his name. I don't feel disillusioned in the slightest. I'd be much happier with a guy who knows how politics and the world works than with a guy who plans to learn as he goes along. If, God forbid, Obama wins the WH (still a looooong way off), I bet he brings a fraction of the change he is promising, and I hope his suppoters are outraged.
This is hilarious coming from someone who backs a complete failure who beat your "vote" last time around...

McCain is a weakling given his experience...
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:30 PM   #232
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True. Remember that one guy. . .fella from Illinois. . .very little experience, lost most elections he ran for and somehow ended up in the White House. . .what was his name? Oh, yes. Abraham Lincoln. Good thing this inexperienced man didn't get in to office when the nation was in a time of serious crisis.
What did that Lincoln fellow accomplish again?
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:31 PM   #233
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Bush was experienced. Obama isn't.

Anyone who's not too lazy could look behind those and see that "experience" is relative, but unfortunately, there are lazy people out there.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:31 PM   #234
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McCain is a weakling given his experience...
He is someone whose principles come cheap.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:33 PM   #235
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- a black man who was the first editor of the Harvard Law Journal (people have no idea what an accomplishment this is), who won one of the whitest states, and who has finally figured out how to bring young people to the polls. That is remarkable, whether or not you agree with him.

Republicans should pay attention. They have a guy sitting in the white house whom people voted for because they thought they could have a beer with him. The amount of hypocrisy about Obama's lack of experience is stunning given that Bush was a failure at everything he ever did.
Absolutely. He's not my first choice but were he to be elected it would be a great day in US history on many levels.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:35 PM   #236
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Yes, Romney, you beat the candidates everyone knows and you were largely defeated by one of the only candidates lesser known than you. Well done.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:36 PM   #237
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He is someone whose principles come cheap.
It's funny if we were talking music this guy would be unanimously considered a sold out...
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:37 PM   #238
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True. Remember that one guy. . .fella from Illinois. . .
.
Lincoln is over-rated.



and this true hero, almost forgotten.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:40 PM   #239
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Originally posted by anitram

That said, he is absolutely inspirational when you watch him. My father just saw the speech, he is a man who hasn't voted in 18 years and he said he'd vote for Obama. He makes you feel like you can actually do anything - a black man who was the first editor of the Harvard Law Journal (people have no idea what an accomplishment this is), who won one of the whitest states, and who has finally figured out how to bring young people to the polls. That is remarkable, whether or not you agree with him.

Republicans should pay attention. They have a guy sitting in the white house whom people voted for because they thought they could have a beer with him. The amount of hypocrisy about Obama's lack of experience is stunning given that Bush was a failure at everything he ever did. But, if the country was willing to vote for a guy they want to go to a bar with, then you should fear the guy who makes people think that they really can achieve the American dream. I would not want to run against him.
You're definitely right; Obama has accomplished much in his young life, and is really stirring up the nation. Beyond that, however, I want him to win the primaries simply because I'm curious to see what the exact opposite of Bush would do in office. That is, a young, black Democrat vs an aging, backwater white Rupublican. Couldn't hurt.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:40 PM   #240
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. . .and hey, I'm a little confused. I coulda sworn I heard this liberal crowd changing U-S-A, U-S-A, and my understanding is that liberal democrats hate America? very perplexing...

no, no -- it's people that oppose anything Bush has done in Iraq that hate America.
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