Interesting thoughts on Iraq in today's newspaper - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-15-2003, 01:48 PM   #1
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,953
Local Time: 02:10 PM
Interesting thoughts on Iraq in today's newspaper

There's a "portrait of the week" profile in our local newspaper each week on Saturdays, and today it was about ex weapons inspector Jim Ritter who spent 7 years in Iraq before 1998. This is what he claims:

- before 1998 90-95% of weapons for mass destruction were taken out and the nuclear programme was fully eliminated.
- it would take more than 4 years to gain all that back
- if Iraq had done things including enriched plutonium or uranium it would show by increased gama radiations which are easy to pick up by observers. No such radiations were discovered in the last 4 years.
- yes, there are 5-10% of weapons for mass destruction left, but with that, according to him, Iraq is no threat even to neighbour countries, much less US
- as for Al Khaida connections: Bin Laden said several times Saddam should be removed (what with Saddam being a secular leader while Bin Laden is religiously motivated), plus in Iraq the spreading of the specific religious denomitation (which Bin Laden follows) is punishable by death
__________________

__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 02-15-2003, 01:50 PM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,961
Local Time: 08:10 AM
Normal hi mojo

do you mean scott ritter?
__________________

__________________
Screaming Flower is offline  
Old 02-15-2003, 02:17 PM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,953
Local Time: 02:10 PM
Ermmm...I dunno. Could be.

Even more interestingly, US administration dubbed him "traitor" and "Saddam spy".
__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 03:02 PM   #4
Kid A
 
The Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Holy Roman Empire
Posts: 5,271
Local Time: 08:10 AM
did it also mention this discussion Mr Ritter had with Time Magazine... ?

[Ritter]:I am more aware than any UN official that Iraq has set up covert procurement funds to violate sanctions. This was true in 1997-1998, and I'm sure it's true today."


[Time]: You've spoke about having seen the children's prisons in Iraq. Can you describe what you saw there?

[Ritter]:The prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children toddlers up to pre-adolescents whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a horrific scene. Actually I'm not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq, and right now I'm waging peace.
__________________
send lawyers, guns and money...
The Wanderer is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 03:15 PM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 08:10 AM
Re: Interesting thoughts on Iraq in today's newspaper

Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
There's a "portrait of the week" profile in our local newspaper each week on Saturdays, and today it was about ex weapons inspector Jim Ritter who spent 7 years in Iraq before 1998. This is what he claims:

- before 1998 90-95% of weapons for mass destruction were taken out and the nuclear programme was fully eliminated.
- it would take more than 4 years to gain all that back
- if Iraq had done things including enriched plutonium or uranium it would show by increased gama radiations which are easy to pick up by observers. No such radiations were discovered in the last 4 years.
- yes, there are 5-10% of weapons for mass destruction left, but with that, according to him, Iraq is no threat even to neighbour countries, much less US
- as for Al Khaida connections: Bin Laden said several times Saddam should be removed (what with Saddam being a secular leader while Bin Laden is religiously motivated), plus in Iraq the spreading of the specific religious denomitation (which Bin Laden follows) is punishable by death
Excellent post U2 Girl. Any chance you have a link to or the name of the paper? I would like to read it for myself.

Scott Ritter also said this last Sept in TIME:

In 1998, you said Saddam had "not nearly disarmed." Now you say he doesn't have weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Why did you change your mind?

I have never given Iraq a clean bill of health! Never! Never! I've said that no one has backed up any allegations that Iraq has reconstituted WMD capability with anything that remotely resembles substantive fact. To say that Saddam's doing it is in total disregard to the fact that if he gets caught he's a dead man and he knows it. Deterrence has been adequate in the absence of inspectors but this is not a situation that can succeed in the long term. In the long term you have to get inspectors back in.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...351165,00.html
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 03:27 PM   #6
Kid A
 
The Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Holy Roman Empire
Posts: 5,271
Local Time: 08:10 AM
btw, I wasn't trying to discredit Mr Ritter, merely point out that he has also been very critical of Hussein, which people often forget to mention when they discuss how Scott Ritter is opposed to a war...
__________________
send lawyers, guns and money...
The Wanderer is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 04:27 PM   #7
Refugee
 
follower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Porto Alegre/Brasil
Posts: 2,302
Local Time: 10:10 AM
Dreadsox, that newspaper U2 girl mentioned would be in slovenian language, I think. Right U2 girl?

Very interesting, indeed, particularly what Mr.Ritter said about the alleged connections between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. It seems that he spent enough time there to effectively knows what hes saying.
__________________
follower is offline  
Old 02-18-2003, 05:49 PM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 01:10 PM
Mr. Ritter's best report on Iraq was the last one he did as an inspector before Congress after he and the other inspectors had been kicked out of Iraq in 1998. He was an inspector doing his job which was to objectively inspect Iraq and inform the world community on Iraq's success or failure to disarm.

I think that report is far better than what he has to say today several years out of the loop and with an unobjective political slant.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:58 PM   #9
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,953
Local Time: 02:10 PM
SF: Yes, Scott Ritter. Not Jim.

Wanderer: No. Listen, I'm sure Iraqi regime is a opressive one, but they're not the only ones around. Besides this is about WMD, not bad regimes.

Dreadsox: Umm, sorry not. It was a Slovene language magazine. Interesting article you posted. I would point out the continuing of Ritter's answer after your quoted part about Iraq gathering funds to violate sanctions and the part where he says that UN inspections were misused for purposes other than set out by the Security Council resolution.

Follower: That's what I thought too - he's the one that spent 7 years there, I should think he knows what he's talking about.
__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 03:05 PM   #10
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 06:10 AM
so jsut because there are other places that kill their own citizens we dont have to care? We have to start somewhere and Iraq is a good candiadate.
__________________
bonoman is offline  
Old 02-19-2003, 03:12 PM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,953
Local Time: 02:10 PM
Saddam has been in power for what...20+ years. Why all of a sudden do the US now care how he treats his own people? In 1991 he was attacked for invading Kuwait, and why wasn't he removed after the Iraq-Iran conflict?
(by the way - when did this all become about regime change anyway? UN has always been about disarming Iraq, not getting rid of Saddam)
How about getting military/financial aid to Iraq's opposition and let the Iraqis themselves get a new leader?
Why did the US support various dictators - or helped get various dictators in power in its history only to have to deal with the consequences later on?

How about all the civil wars in Africa going on for ages? Why don't we start there?

Also I remember a pic of Donald Rumsfeld happily shaking Saddam Husein's hand in the 80's. (it was also posted here in this forum. If I'm not mistaken, US also didn't mind Bin Laden around as long as he fought the Soviets)

Whatever happened to fighting the terrorism?
__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 02-21-2003, 09:22 PM   #12
Kid A
 
The Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Holy Roman Empire
Posts: 5,271
Local Time: 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
why wasn't [Hussein] removed after the Iraq-Iran conflict?
because "world opinion" wouldn't stand for it, would have saved a lot of trouble though, wouldn't it? but then maybe somebody 'just as bad' would have taken his place by now, who knows... ?

Hussein was used as a tool in the early 80s to prevent Iran (and the brutal Ayatollah) from defeating Iraq

and if you don't see the relevance in preventing the Soviets from conquering the middle east, then there's not much more to say
__________________
send lawyers, guns and money...
The Wanderer is offline  
Old 02-22-2003, 06:26 AM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,953
Local Time: 02:10 PM
Well I guess we'll never know, but it would be worth it to at least try and get someone else instead of Hussein. Sure, prevent Soviets etc... but instead of a dictator, why not actually try a democratic government?

Interesting info yet again: rememer the Powell presentation in UN? In addition to Britiain copying that document, it turns out that the plane-allegedly-spraying-anthrax pic was way back from 1991! A person from the Swiss research centre stood up just hours after the presentation, and the pic was in the internet the next day, confirming that's it an "oldie".

(interesting bit of read also how the PR agency in 1991 made up the story of the girl allegedly in Iraq hospital, watching Iraqui soldiers throw children out of incubators. Well, that girl was really the daughter of the Kuwait ambassador in Washington.)
__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 02-24-2003, 08:08 AM   #14
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 02:10 PM
U2girl:

I'm affraid lots of politicians don't care about the facts anymore. They beLIEve something, ignore everything which dosn't strenghthen their dogma and they pay many people to "find" the facts that dosn't exist.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 02-24-2003, 05:07 PM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 05:10 AM
U S propaganda- to shore up American support for Iraq Attack, latest polls W. is losing support.

Quote:
Iraqi Drones May Target U.S. Cities

Monday, February 24, 2003



WASHINGTON Iraq could be planning a chemical or biological attack on American cities through the use of remote-controlled "drone" planes equipped with GPS tracking maps, according to U.S. intelligence.

The information about Iraq's unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) program has caused a "real concern" among defense personnel, senior U.S. officials tell Fox News. They're worried that these vehicles have already been, or could be, transported inside the United States to be used in an attack, although there is no proof that this has happened.

Secretary of State Colin Powell showed a picture of a small drone plane during his presentation to the U.N. Security Council earlier this month.

"UAVs outfitted with spray tanks constitute an ideal method for launching a terrorist attack using biological weapons," Powell said during his speech. "Iraq could use these small UAVs, which have a wingspan of only a few meters, to deliver biological agents to its neighbors or, if transported, to other countries, including the United States."

Powell said there is "ample evidence" that Iraq has dedicated much time and effort to developing and testing spray devices that could be adapted for UAVs. "And of the little that Saddam Hussein told us about UAVs, he has not told the truth," Powell said.

In the arms declaration Iraq submitted to the U.N. Security Council in December, the country said its UAVs have a range of only 50 miles. But Powell said U.S. intelligence sources found that one of Iraq's newest UAVs went 310 miles nonstop on autopilot in a test run. That distance is over the 155 miles that the United Nations permits, and the test was left out of Iraq's arms declaration.

Officials tell Fox that there is solid intelligence that Iraq has tested many different types of sprayers on these drones to disperse chemical and biological weapons.

President Bush addressed the threat in October in Cincinnati, making his first big case outlining Iraq's defiance.

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons across broad areas," Bush said in preparation for a congressional vote authorizing the use of force against Iraq. "We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States."

The president noted, however, that sophisticated delivery systems aren't required for a chemical or biological attack. "All that might be required are a small container and one terrorist or Iraqi intelligence operative to deliver it," he said.

Even though it has been mentioned a few times by administration officials, the issue of UAVs and their capabilities has been largely overlooked.

But some experts say that even if the UAVs do get assembled for use in the United States, the chances that they could cause widespread damage are low.

"These technologies are not terribly well proven," F. Whitten Peters, a former Air Force Secretary, told Fox News, referring to vehicles that can be used to disperse harmful agents.

Peters said in order to go undetected in the air, the UAVs would have to be small -- and therefore would not be able to carry too much of a harmful substance, and they would have to fly over densely populated areas if they want to achieve maximum casualties.

But because many large metropolitan areas such as Washington have air traffic watchers keeping an eye out for any nearby planes that have not filed a flight plan, the UAVs likely would not succeed in a large-city attack.

It's the smaller cities and towns that would be more vulnerable.

"It's not clear air traffic would actually see this aircraft," Peters said, adding that if the vehicles flew low enough to evade radar detection, "they would be basically invisible."

As to what the government could do to protect Americans from any threat UAVs may pose, Peters said: "I don't think there's much to be done besides the steps we're already taking to deal with chemical and biological threats."

But some experts say the threat is very real and should be taken seriously.

"This isn't brain surgery," Air National Guard Chief Paul Weaver told Fox News in reference to how easy it would be to assemble a UAV. "The key is getting it into the country."

Not too long after Sept. 11, there was a report made public about Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network being trained to conduct air raids through air vehicles outfitted with spray tanks. Some terror network members had looked into the possibility of training on the aerial UAVs. This was the catalyst for investigations into U.S. flight schools.

"If they could organize something like Sept. 11," Weaver said, "this would be very doable."

Fox News' Bret Baier and Liza Porteus contributed to this report.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com