in case you thought Patraeus was apolitical ... - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-10-2007, 03:11 PM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 11:03 AM
This is really strange


How would we take it if the Soviets were holding a summit on Afghanistan talking about what their goals there are.

And what is the best way to achieve them.



The Iraqis goals, and each group has their own, does not line up with what these jackasses are talking about.


They have a few phony figure heads that show up and take our money.

The Soviets had people that would do the same in Afghanistan, that did not hold

And this will not hold, either.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 03:37 PM   #17
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
The Soviets had people that would do the same in Afghanistan, that did not hold

And this will not hold, either.


um, hello? the Soviets were godless communists, not patrotic can-do Americans.

haven't you been paying attention? Petraeus just told us that the heterosexual "Surge" has reduced the potency of the "InSurgency" to what it was 18 months ago! that's incredible! it doesn't matter that it's way, way, way stronger than it was in 2003, 2004, 2005 and early 2006. it's better than it was when we started! see! Iraq hasn't totally slid into a deep black hellhole of bonecrunching sectarian violence where Sunnis put Shiites in ovens, and vice versa. see! when you set the bar really, really, really low, things can start to look really up!
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 04:20 PM   #18
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98

So the only military way we can truly stabilize ALL of Iraq is by sending in a million man army patrolling every single street corner in the country. But of course, when we leave, whether it is tomorrow, next year, or in 10 years, there is going to be a full blown Civil War in that country and then after all the bloodshed, it will finally stabilize.

Exactly. Which is why we are stuck there. We never should have gone into Iraq because now we're stuck there and there's no good way out. Meanwhile there was a suicide bombing in Afghanistan today and we still haven't caught Osama Bin Laden.
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:02 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
trevster2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,330
Local Time: 03:33 PM
Bush ain't doing anything with Iraq. He is leaving that mess for the Democrat president who replaces him. Then the Republicans will use that issue to attack the new president since no matter what the plan is, stay,leave or whatever, it ain't gonna be pretty.
__________________
trevster2k is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:05 PM   #20
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 02:03 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_legend



and it works for the US in Vietnam as well. don't you know? Jane Fonda defeated the US Army in 1972.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:07 PM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




um, hello? the Soviets were godless communists, not patrotic can-do Americans.

haven't you been paying attention? Petraeus just told us that the heterosexual "Surge" has reduced the potency of the "InSurgency" to what it was 18 months ago! that's incredible! it doesn't matter that it's way, way, way stronger than it was in 2003, 2004, 2005 and early 2006. it's better than it was when we started! see! Iraq hasn't totally slid into a deep black hellhole of bonecrunching sectarian violence where Sunnis put Shiites in ovens, and vice versa. see! when you set the bar really, really, really low, things can start to look really up!
For all the hyperbole do you make the distinction between sectarian violence and that directed at US forces? Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia for instance has lost it's safe havens due to the pressures on the Sunni tribes because of the sectarianism - as that war goes to the fore the insurgency fades and pales.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:12 PM   #22
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
For all the hyperbole do you make the distinction between sectarian violence and that directed at US forces? Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia for instance has lost it's safe havens due to the pressures on the Sunni tribes because of the sectarianism - as that war goes to the fore the insurgency fades and pales.


when it comes to the Surge's stated goal -- military stability to facilitate political reconciliation -- it doesn't matter much if the violence is from Al-Qaeda or Sunni-on-Shiitte-or-vice-versa. instability is instability. it continues to be so, and "the Surge" is not just politically useless, but militarily as well because it's not addressing the real causes of the unrest in Baghdad.

i've also said in here that the moderate successes battling AQM in Al-Anbar posit a way out of Iraq -- sure, you're a Sunni and you hate the Shiites, but if you see the increasingly desperate AQM tactics, you're going to hate them more. the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend. and this has little to do with "the Surge" which is mostly in Baghdad.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:45 PM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 05:03 AM
Quote:
it doesn't matter much if the violence is from Al-Qaeda or Sunni-on-Shiitte-or-vice-versa
I would think that it matters a great deal, especially if you support a timetable for a phased withdrawl over the next year, if there are safe havens for international terrorist organisations the blowback is much greater than that of tribal war and ethnic cleansing - the marginalisation of AQ in Iraq is a boon for getting foreign forces out of the country, much more than finding that an acceptable price to pay.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 06:21 PM   #24
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I would think that it matters a great deal, especially if you support a timetable for a phased withdrawl over the next year, if there are safe havens for international terrorist organisations the blowback is much greater than that of tribal war and ethnic cleansing - the marginalisation of AQ in Iraq is a boon for getting foreign forces out of the country, much more than finding that an acceptable price to pay.


insofar as an exit strategy, i agree; insofar as creating enough stability for the government to function, i do not agree.

there are two different goals here.

and we could knock out AQM for all intents and purposes, leave, and the lack of a government could provide another Afghanistan for AQI.

so, ultimately, we're kind of fucked no matter what.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 07:18 PM   #25
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


so, ultimately, we're kind of fucked no matter what.
I think that sums up the whole war in one sentence.
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 07:32 PM   #26
Refugee
 
Infinity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,188
Local Time: 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



so, ultimately, we're kind of fucked no matter what.

AMEN!

__________________
Infinity is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:26 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 11:03 AM
To be fair,
these guys, Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker

have a better plan and execution than the meandering mess that has has happened from 2003 on

but, even doing things right now will not put it all back together again

I heard Crocker say
"Am I positive this will work? No.
But I am optimistic."

I can't tell you how many times I have heard a Doctor say almost the same thing
when I have gone to visit a terminally ill person.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:51 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
To be fair,
these guys, Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker

have a better plan and execution than the meandering mess that has has happened from 2003 on
Amen. If only Petraeus was in charge then...
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-10-2007, 09:10 PM   #29
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,501
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Amen. If only Petraeus was in charge then...


i can agree with this.

but with the caveat that we'd have needed a different president and SecDef.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-11-2007, 01:55 AM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
Varitek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: on borderland we run
Posts: 16,861
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


This again?




You don't follow the news much, do you?

Violence in Baghdad most certainly is down since the surge- BY 75%!!. Both combat deaths and sectarian violence in Iraq (and ESPECIALLY in Baghdad) are down from last spring.

They are not counting car bombs as violence, for reasons beyond comprehension (oh wait...I understand...they are cooking the books to make it look better!). Nor are they counting violence between people within the same sect, just violence that is sect-against-sect. However, violence within sects has gone up.

__________________

__________________
Varitek is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com