in case you thought Patraeus was apolitical ... - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-14-2007, 03:32 PM   #181
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Firstly I do not think that you can point to Baathist Iraq as a model of consensual government, Hussein was long way from being a benign dictator (the opinion polls from Iraqis show that the majority approve that Saddam is removed and that life in Iraq is better without him in power - while at the same time disaproving of US presence in the country and terrorism). The situation that Iraq was in through the 1990's where it was boxed in militarily to enforce a regime of sanctions was bad; it cannot be matched to countries such as Pakistan or China where that program of destruction had been pursued.

As Sting2 would point out the violence in Iraq is concentrated around Baghdad, in the absence of foreign forces most of the country (at least the ethnically seperate parts) can be peaceful). Any policy for withdrawing troops should be matched with one that can achieve a stability in Iraq without a bloodbath - now if that is a referendum on partition, installing a dictator (which wouldn't surprise given the langauge coming from both US parties ) or leaving the Iraqi government to seek regional partners in Iran and Syria that should be the focus of the discussion. But it isn't because Iraqs long term situation is in nobodies political interest because as soon as foreign forces leave it's not their problem or responsibility for what happens.
I completely recognize that Hussein's rule in Iraq was one that resulted in a lot of terrible things. I agree that Hussein did not rule the country well.

But the entire war strategy didn't add up. It was on the basis of Weapons of Mass Destruction, not because he was a cruel dictator. It was on the basis that Hussein was a THREAT TO THE US, not to his people.

What I'm saying is that we can't go in individually and change the Middle East to what we want it to be. Which is what this war ended up doing once the WMD trail went dry. We can't create stability without having a much larger force there. We can't have a much larger force there because we can't use that many resources to stabilize something that isn't a threat to our country.
__________________

__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 03:36 PM   #182
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:28 AM
Look at the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, it covers a lot more than just the undeclared WMD/prograns.

Want to attack the policy then chase after the hypocricy, particulary in the cases of Saudi Arabia and Egypt where the US pays to protect and spread the problems that it is supposedly trying to remedy in Iraq; at the end of the day nothing can happen until theres no interest in keeping dictators.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:01 PM   #183
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Yea you are right. But I thought I'd just start with those to see what the neo-cons have to say about that.
Are you saying you would support the invasion of these countries?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:07 PM   #184
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


So, if less American were dying a month you would support the Iraq war?
Talk about failed logic...
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:08 PM   #185
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Are you saying you would support the invasion of these countries?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:20 PM   #186
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Like I have said before - I hear a lot of talk about social justice around the globe. I see bumper stickers like "Free Tibet." And there is a lot of criticism that the UN did too little to stop the Darfur tragedy.

I'm just wondering how people plan on accomplishing these rather noble goals without at least SOME military force.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:25 PM   #187
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Like I have said before - I hear a lot of talk about social justice around the globe. I see bumper stickers like "Free Tibet." And there is a lot of criticism that the UN did too little to stop the Darfur tragedy.

I'm just wondering how people plan on accomplishing these rather noble goals without at least SOME military force.
It helps to have strategy along with said military force.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:25 PM   #188
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Like I have said before - I hear a lot of talk about social justice around the globe. I see bumper stickers like "Free Tibet." And there is a lot of criticism that the UN did too little to stop the Darfur tragedy.

I'm just wondering how people plan on accomplishing these rather noble goals without at least SOME military force.
I'm laughing because you seem to not be able to read sarcasm...

Take a look at history, has all change been due to the military? I wonder how many lives would have been saved if people weren't so willing to "bomb for democracy"?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:34 PM   #189
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I wonder how many lives would have been saved if people weren't so willing to "bomb for democracy"?
I also wonder how many lives were needlessly lost because we didn't bomb soon enough (World War II and over 72 MILLION lives immediately comes to mind)
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:36 PM   #190
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


It helps to have strategy along with said military force.
This we agree on.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:37 PM   #191
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Are you saying you would support the invasion of these countries?
do you think it is possible that because you are in the business of only working with hammers

that you may tend to view things as nails?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:41 PM   #192
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


do you think it is possible that because you are in the business of only working with hammers

that you may tend to view things as nails?
Or I may have joined the business of working with hammers BECAUSE I see all of these nails
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:48 PM   #193
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 09:28 AM
AEON, as a supporter of democracy, would you be fine with the Saudis electing an al-Qaeda leader as Prime Minister (provided we bombed them out of their monarchy) and Iraq electing al-Sadr as theirs?

I mean, the Shiites could most certainly do so in a democratic process, as an expression of their will. Would you be supportive of that or is it then time to remove him a la Saddam?
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:54 PM   #194
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Look at the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, it covers a lot more than just the undeclared WMD/prograns.

Want to attack the policy then chase after the hypocricy, particulary in the cases of Saudi Arabia and Egypt where the US pays to protect and spread the problems that it is supposedly trying to remedy in Iraq; at the end of the day nothing can happen until theres no interest in keeping dictators.


you're not resurrecting the infamous 1441, are you?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-14-2007, 04:56 PM   #195
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:28 AM
No, but the argument that Iraq was invaded exclusively on the basis of WMD is demonstrably false.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com