In a Democracy.... - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-13-2002, 06:33 PM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 10:07 PM
In a Democracy....

In a Democracy do the citizens have a right to know everything? Or does the nature of the United States being Republic mean we should have faith that the people who represent us are chosing wisely for us?

Peace to all......
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 06:36 PM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 PM

That we elected certain ppl..I think its our way of saying-
"We trust you to handle the affairs of our country"..

If they break the law then that is a different issue..

dB9
__________________

__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 06:47 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:07 PM
You're using the terms interchangably, which is incorrect. In a democracy, by definition, the people have direct involvement on their own governing. So, yes, in a democracy, citizens do have a right to know everything. In a republic, which is what the United States was founded on, citizens are represented by elected officials who vote for them; hence, the question becomes a bit grayer.

However, in practice, the United States is more of a hybrid democratic republic, perhaps thanks to Progressive activism in the first third of the 20th century. In essence, what I think we have is the inevitable outgrowth of this conflict between the government that the Founding Fathers created--a republic--and the de-facto emergence of democracy. What is different is the American public itself, where there was a high disparity between the education levels of the elected officials and the populace, which was highly incapable of running itself. Even Plato admitted that a democracy was contingent on an educated populace, which was absent in the foundation of the United States.

Things have changed, though, and we have many citizens who are smarter than our elected officials. Perhaps as a tribute to our never-ending inquisitiveness, we demand a more active involvement in how our elected officials operate. In theory, our elected officials are supposed to represent their district, but, as we all know, that is often not the case. Partisanship seems to be the name of the game, and the platform that these individuals are elected on are often so vague that we all know it is deceptive. The republic, itself, is becoming a failure, as our elected officials are failing in their duty to their district, primarily to be honest in what they plan on doing in office. Democracy is the natural outgrowth of this distrust, and, as such, that is why citizens do have the right to know the truth, rather than be fed a bunch of lies to protect those in power.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 07:35 PM   #4
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 03:07 AM
I think its not correct to say that citizens have the literal right to Know "everything". Historically, to many military operations and lives would have been compromised and lost if, citizens knew everything. If you or I knew everything, then so would the enemy. That would put our security in jeopardy and therefore, our freedom as well.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 07:37 PM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I think its not correct to say that citizens have the literal right to Know "everything". Historically, to many military operations and lives would have been compromised and lost if, citizens knew everything. If you or I knew everything, then so would the enemy. That would put our security in jeopardy and therefore, our freedom as well.
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 07:42 PM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
You're using the terms interchangably, which is incorrect. In a democracy, by definition, the people have direct involvement on their own governing. So, yes, in a democracy, citizens do have a right to know everything. In a republic, which is what the United States was founded on, citizens are represented by elected officials who vote for them; hence, the question becomes a bit grayer.

However, in practice, the United States is more of a hybrid democratic republic, perhaps thanks to Progressive activism in the first third of the 20th century. In essence, what I think we have is the inevitable outgrowth of this conflict between the government that the Founding Fathers created--a republic--and the de-facto emergence of democracy. What is different is the American public itself, where there was a high disparity between the education levels of the elected officials and the populace, which was highly incapable of running itself. Even Plato admitted that a democracy was contingent on an educated populace, which was absent in the foundation of the United States.

Things have changed, though, and we have many citizens who are smarter than our elected officials. Perhaps as a tribute to our never-ending inquisitiveness, we demand a more active involvement in how our elected officials operate. In theory, our elected officials are supposed to represent their district, but, as we all know, that is often not the case. Partisanship seems to be the name of the game, and the platform that these individuals are elected on are often so vague that we all know it is deceptive. The republic, itself, is becoming a failure, as our elected officials are failing in their duty to their district, primarily to be honest in what they plan on doing in office. Democracy is the natural outgrowth of this distrust, and, as such, that is why citizens do have the right to know the truth, rather than be fed a bunch of lies to protect those in power.

Melon
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 07:46 PM   #7
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
You're using the terms interchangably, which is incorrect. In a democracy, by definition, the people have direct involvement on their own governing. So, yes, in a democracy, citizens do have a right to know everything. In a republic, which is what the United States was founded on, citizens are represented by elected officials who vote for them; hence, the question becomes a bit grayer.

However, in practice, the United States is more of a hybrid democratic republic, perhaps thanks to Progressive activism in the first third of the 20th century. In essence, what I think we have is the inevitable outgrowth of this conflict between the government that the Founding Fathers created--a republic--and the de-facto emergence of democracy. What is different is the American public itself, where there was a high disparity between the education levels of the elected officials and the populace, which was highly incapable of running itself. Even Plato admitted that a democracy was contingent on an educated populace, which was absent in the foundation of the United States.

Things have changed, though, and we have many citizens who are smarter than our elected officials. Perhaps as a tribute to our never-ending inquisitiveness, we demand a more active involvement in how our elected officials operate. In theory, our elected officials are supposed to represent their district, but, as we all know, that is often not the case. Partisanship seems to be the name of the game, and the platform that these individuals are elected on are often so vague that we all know it is deceptive. The republic, itself, is becoming a failure, as our elected officials are failing in their duty to their district, primarily to be honest in what they plan on doing in office. Democracy is the natural outgrowth of this distrust, and, as such, that is why citizens do have the right to know the truth, rather than be fed a bunch of lies to protect those in power.

Melon
Excellent Post Melon....The terms are not interchangable in our case....but I think the nature of Republic is a bit contrary to the nature of Democracy? Yes no?
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 07:48 PM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
kobayashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the ether
Posts: 5,142
Local Time: 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Things have changed, though, and we have many citizens who are smarter than our elected officials. Perhaps as a tribute to our never-ending inquisitiveness, we demand a more active involvement in how our elected officials operate. In theory, our elected officials are supposed to represent their district, but, as we all know, that is often not the case. Partisanship seems to be the name of the game, and the platform that these individuals are elected on are often so vague that we all know it is deceptive. The republic, itself, is becoming a failure, as our elected officials are failing in their duty to their district, primarily to be honest in what they plan on doing in office. Democracy is the natural outgrowth of this distrust, and, as such, that is why citizens do have the right to know the truth, rather than be fed a bunch of lies to protect those in power.

Melon
you are definetely correct that the american public is much more educated now than at any other time in the past, melon. however, i am unconvinced that this level of education translates into a more 'responsible' citizenship, for lack of a better word. increasingly, the american public is at the mercy of a highly centralized mass media, with few owners and diverse interests.

i don't know that the american people, or the people of any nation, are better off in spite of increasing education levels.
__________________
im the candyman. and the candyman is back.
kobayashi is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 08:25 PM   #9
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 07:07 PM
Let's throw this out, and then run away

Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


increasingly, the american public is at the mercy of a highly centralized mass media, with few owners and diverse interests.

Which our elected officials have allowed to take place because of their personal and financial ties to these media owners.
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 10-14-2002, 08:57 AM   #10
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I think its not correct to say that citizens have the literal right to Know "everything". Historically, to many military operations and lives would have been compromised and lost if, citizens knew everything. If you or I knew everything, then so would the enemy. That would put our security in jeopardy and therefore, our freedom as well.
Sting,

This is one thing that concerns me. WHen do the citizens have the right to know everything. Is it months, years, decades from the event?

My fear is that this can be used to manipulate the people living in the country.

I do recognize that in many cases it is important for secrecy. Just concerned.


Peace to all.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com