Imus Calls Rutgers Women's Basketball Team "Nappy Headed Hos"

[Irvine511]

I believe so, yes -- these are generally fact-sensitive inquiries, as I understand it. I'm an intellectual property lawyer, so I haven't studied this much and am a little bit far afield, though.

and what facts do we expect to be presented in an aside comment on a comedy/news radio show?

in the context of an interview, did Imus say these girls were sluts/hos? or, in the context of what was meant to be humors banter, did Imus mischaracterize a group of people in a racist manner in the same way that, say, the French get characterized on all of right wing radio ("cheese eating surrender monkeys")?

can France sue Bill O'Reilly for slander? should we hold a news conference and have the people of France talk about how deeply hurt they are when Americans make fun of them?

 

[ntalwar]

can France sue Bill O'Reilly for slander? should we hold a news conference and have the people of France talk about how deeply hurt they are when Americans make fun of them?

There's a little difference between 10 people and a nation.
These are people that will have to endure the spotlight and eventually get non-basketball jobs most likely.

I brought up the slander because they could file a case, and have chosen not to. I think that shows a lot of class on their part. I think there's a double standard in that Imus gets the podium all he wants, but as soon as the team goes public it becomes a circus.

 

[Vincent Vega]

can France sue Bill O'Reilly for slander? should we hold a news conference and have the people of France talk about how deeply hurt they are when Americans make fun of them?

Why? It's far easier to make fun of the USA

I'm sure the players were hurt by the comments, but I also think what hurts more is when the media brings it up every day, over and over and over, and people like Al Sharpton try to get some publicity out of it.

I don't think we shoud judge the players for the press conference, or for what they did there as they are not media professionals. But I agree that it would be wrong to say they had to do this.

What I kind of observe here is that, like with other cases, people condemn people for making stupid remarks, but don't take an apology anymore. Sure, he did it in some special way, and sure, it wasn't his first time. But he did apologize, and he now wants to meet with these girls.
The public should monitor public speech, and call out when something crosses the line. But they also should forgive. Like the saying, forgive, not forgotten. Today it seems rather to be "Forgiving? Never!"

Like Marc Gellman said, Imus is going into repentance, hopfully, and it doesn't help either side if people go on and on to show with the finger at him and don't stop with judging his remarks.

The media is blowing things out pof proportion today, and the people are happily participating. But it helps no one. And it's making things rather worse than easier for the "victims".

 

[Irvine511]

I think there's a double standard in that Imus gets the podium all he wants, but as soon as the team goes public it becomes a circus.

isn't it Imus who has the explaining to do, not these women?

 

[BVS]

isn't it Imus who has the explaining to do, not these women?

Exactly, why is this so hard to understand?

 

[deep]

''Al Sharpton is a bigger racist than Imus.''

People should watch the sharptom imus interview

When Imus said "I am not a Racist, I am a good person"

Sharpton said, "You are not a racist you are a good person that made a racist remark"

 

[ntalwar]

Exactly, why is this so hard to understand?

Imus did a lot more than "explain". He did an entire PR whitewash.

 

[Irvine511]

[q]"I would like to speak to him personally and ... ask him, after you've met me personally, do you still feel in this category that I'm still a 'ho' as a woman and as a black, African-American woman at that?" said Kia Vaughn, a sophomore center.

"I achieve a lot, and unless they have given this name of 'ho' a new definition, then that is not what I am."[/q]

 

[deep]

the explanation

that "jigaboos"

makes him think of "Spike Lee"


I am sure he never heard that term or used it until a certain spike lee film

 

[deep]

If I said Madonna reminded me of a trans-gender hooker.


Would it be revealing more about me and things I may have participated in,
than Madonna's actual appearance?

 

[BVS]

Imus did a lot more than "explain". He did an entire PR whitewash.

Interesting use of words.

Ok, but you're missing the point. What do these women have to explain about? NOTHING!

 

[ntalwar]

Ok, but you're missing the point. What do these women have to explain about? NOTHING!

They didn't HAVE to explain anything, I agree.
They chose to state things like:

"These young ladies before you are valedictorians, future doctors, musical prodigies, and yes, even Girl Scouts," said Stringer. "These young ladies are the best this nation has to offer and we are so very fortunate to have them here at Rutgers University."

One of her players, sophomore forward Heather Zurich, said her pride at going so far in the tournament was undercut by the radio host's on-air insults.

"We were stripped of this moment by a degrading comment by Mr. Imus," she said.

She added that she believed she and her teammates "present ourselves well both on and off the court, though Mr. Imus doesn't agree. Then again, he knows not one of us."

Junior forward Essence Carson, who said she felt "great hurt, anger and disgust" over the remarks, explained that she wanted to meet with Imus to understand why he said what he said.

 

[BVS]

They didn't HAVE to explain anything, I agree.
They chose to state things like:

Yes, but earlier you said they 'need' to:

They need to show people their faces and personalities in order to dispel Imus' characterization.

That's the only part I have issue with...

 

[deep]

That's the only part I have issue with...

Some people may have assumed they were more hard-core,
that their appearance "kind of" invited the remark.

 

[ntalwar]

Yes, but earlier you said they 'need' to:

"HAVE to explain" versus "need to show people their faces and personalities " - a little different. Anyway, I still agree with it and others still disagree.

 

[BVS]

Some people may have assumed they were more hard-core,
that their appearance "kind of" invited the remark.

I understand that, but I think as part of Imus' apology he should explain why his generalization is wrong.

If you made a thread saying 'BVS is a sexist man-whore' and had no examples of my behavior to back it up.

Why would I have to say anything? What am I to say? No I'm not, here's why...

 

[deep]

I understand that, but I think as part of Imus' apology he should explain why his generalization is wrong.

If you made a thread saying 'BVS is a sexist man-whore' and had no examples of my behavior to back it up.

Why would I have to say anything? What am I to say? No I'm not, here's why...

I do get what you are saying.

I think a public figure (politician/ celebrity) would not need to respond to an outlandish accusation.

But don't you think most people in here would respond to an accusation?

 

[deep]

Some NBA players have been called names.

And they may have (partly) brought that on themselves.
Thuggish behavior, punching fans, shooting their mouths off, legal problems, you get the jest.


Well, what did these young girls do (to any degree) to bring this upon themselves?

 

[BVS]

But don't you think most people in here would respond to an accusation?

Maybe we should see...

 

[BVS]

Some NBA players have been called names.

And they may have (partly) brought that on themselves.
Thuggish behavior, punching fans, shooting their mouths off, legal problems, you get the jest.


Well, what did these young girls do (to any degree) to bring this upon themselves?

I also think this is a big difference as well, if it were an individual being labeled and a group being labeled.

I would think a group being labeled would get taken less seriously than an individual. I think a group being labeled would be understood as an unfair generalization, whereas an individual might get taken seriously.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally posted by Irvine511


do you really think these women were paralyzed with hurt? do you really think they cried themselves to sleep at night? do you really think they looked at themselves in the mirror the next day and thought, "gosh, maybe i really am a ho"? do you really think they looke at themsleves in the mirror the next day and thought, "oh no, America thinks i'm a ho."

because i don't.

That's not the point-the point is that, even with all they have achieved in sports and academically, that they have been reduced to that on the national airwaves by the comments in that whole transcript. Watch the press conference and see what they have to say. I'm sure none of them wondered if they are really hos-like I said, that's not the point. You don't have to be "paralyzed with hurt" or cry yourself to sleep to have comments sometimes hurt you to the core of your being, maybe you have experienced that too. I know I have-most people have to one extent or another.

And I am not into comparing insults but I am well aware that wishing death from AIDS is much worse than what Imus said if you want to compare. It is merely an example of what MSNBC did in two situations, since you brought the gay issue up. I would never say that isn't worse and if you think I think otherwise, then you really don't pay attention to what I say here. Come on, please. I don't know, sometimes I really don't know...

 

[deep]

if i have to choose a side to empathised with

is it with innocent teenage girls with no history of behavior that would attract these kind of comments?

or


a professional radio personality that is a multi-millionair with huge earnings, derived from the public air ways,
that has a history of making multiple racist, bigoted, sexist, anti-Semitic, homophobic remarks?



as a 51 year old white male with six figure savings accounts
and seven figure property holdings

I am suppose to empathise with Imus
but I just don't

taking a cheap shot like this,
even if it was in a private home with four or five buddies drinking beer,
I hope I would look at the person and ask them to explain the remark.

If this happened repeated times,
I imagine we would not be watching games together anymore.

 

[Irvine511]

[q]That's not the point-the point is that, even with all they have achieved in sports and academically, that they have been reduced to that on the national airwaves by the comments in that whole transcript. Watch the press conference and see what they have to say. I'm sure none of them wondered if they are really hos-like I said, that's not the point. You don't have to be "paralyzed with hurt" or cry yourself to sleep to have comments sometimes hurt you to the core of your being, maybe you have experienced that too. I know I have-most people have to one extent or another.[/q]


i just don't think Imus has this power. i saw the press conference. i think they saw something bad, so they went about addressing it. people are not responding to a group of girls who were personally shattered by Imus's comments; rather, they are responding to comments that were insensitive and stupid about a group of girls. as i've alluded to, of course i've heard people in the media say terrible, terrible things about gay people. but i don't what Michael Savage has to say.



[q]And I am not into comparing insults but I am well aware that wishing death from AIDS is much worse than what Imus said if you want to compare. It is merely an example of what MSNBC did in two situations, since you brought the gay issue up. I would never say that isn't worse and if you think I think otherwise, then you really don't pay attention to what I say here. Come on, please. I don't know, sometimes I really don't know... [/q]



we might be disagreeing in a very small way (we of course agree that the comments were gross), but there is no need to take anything personally or to read too much into my comments. i just pointed out the distinction between the comments to show why i think Savage was fired, and why Imus has only been suspended. that's all.

 

[Irvine511]

Well, what did these young girls do (to any degree) to bring this upon themselves?

my mother thinks they're thuggish, but then, she's a huge UConn fan and thinks all teams that beat UConn are bad in some way.

 

[deep]

why so much empathy for the homophobe?

my mother thinks they're thuggish, but then, she's a huge UConn fan and thinks all teams that beat UConn are bad in some way.

thuggish, ok

aggressive, physical playing


and how does that lead to "nappy-headed hos"


do you think if he only said "these girls are ruff, they are thugs"

we would even be talking about this?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

"HAVE to explain" versus "need to show people their faces and personalities " - a little different. Anyway, I still agree with it and others still disagree.

I think perhaps what you mean, and what I agree with, is that in doing that press conference they are no longer just the "victims" of Imus and the "nappy headed hos" (not that they are obviously, but in light of these comments they are being called that). They are individuals, they have names and faces and personalities, they are a team. They are not famous enough that most people know them by name and face, let alone about their athletic and academic achievements. Reading about them isn't the same-so the press conference was about that, not about answering for or to anything.

Sometimes when people are faced with the human side of what these comments do it hits home more-and Imus will find out what that is like in the private meeting. It's more personal, it's more meaningful. It's much easier to demean people in the way that Imus did. Would Ann Coulter call John Edwards a faggot to his face? Ok, maybe she would and maybe that's a poor example. But you know what I mean.

Other than hardcore college basketball fans, the majority of the public would never know anything about these women. So it's good, I think it's important, to hear what they say about themselves in their own words. And to hear what their coach says about them.

The point isn't answering to the word "ho" even though I think they have a right to mention that if they want. It's about young college women who are achievers being reduced to being called a ho standing up and talking about their achievements and basically saying that no one is going to take that from them. If you watch the press conference, that is a running theme throughout.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

he should have just called them "faggots" and then no one would have actually cared.

sorta like Billy Packer on Charlie Rose's show.

 

[Justin24]

All People are fucking Hypocrites. Example. http://break.com/index/double_standard.html

Where was Al and Jesse to Condem this. Or will I hear, the usual "Oh well it's different if it is political or said by some one that is not white. This is why I hate the Word "Race" it's a word more racist that nappy, jiggabo, cracker, spick and so on. Why can't we just be human beings.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The Rutgers team just wants to be human beings Justin, and be recognized for their achivements in the same way that everyone is. And having Imus call them nappy headed hos the day after they reached the pinnacle, well that was a slap in the face and a hard thing to take. That has nothing to do with Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or tit for tat or hypocrisy. It is about them.

 

[Justin24]

We are all human, we all make mistakes. Imus apologized and that should have been the end of it. But Sharpton and Jackson both men of god. A god who ask for us to forgive, yet they go out and do the same shit people did to Jesus (except the beating up and killing) part and destroy a man. When he has destroyed himself already.

So again where was Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and people of All "Races" to condem the person in that video who said all white people should be exterminated.