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Old 04-14-2007, 12:56 PM   #421
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase



the first two paragraphs make a lot of sense... the second two paragraphs are pretty thin, making broad assumptions rather than logical conclusions.


having finally seen this week's South Park -- which was screamingly funny, Memphis and i nearly fell on the floor at the "scissor me timbers" line -- and knowing a thing or two (but maybe not three) about lesbian culture, the cartoon depictions of various lesbian "types" was dead-on. it's clear that the creators have more than a passing familiarity with lesbian culture, and though there was mocking, it seemed much more on "our" side than not.

i think that's part of it, and i think the younger you go, the more willing people are to allow non-members to be one of "us." remember "Bullworth"? at the end, Halle Berry says to Warren Betty, "you my Nigga." it's kind of like that.

i don't think people like Sharpton get that. and i think it's because he's too old and came of age in a more clearly defined era.
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Old 04-14-2007, 01:38 PM   #422
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Originally posted by yolland

It makes for a seductively concise and incensing little trope--two cunning and masterful hypocrites stringing up the misunderstood hero whose rash tongue belies a big heart and a sharp mind.

(No, that's not my personal verdict on either.)

However, the reality that this has been THE dominant national news story of the week and generated a mind-boggling volume of articles, news segments, roundtables, blog entries, YouTube clips, message board threads, boardroom sessions, you name it, suggests a much more diffuse and complicated flurry of events.

Most of my foreign colleagues and students have been utterly confounded at how an issue like this could capture and hold center stage for so long.
It's really interesting.
Hans Filbinger, former prime minister of Baden-Wuerttemberg and naval judge during the nazi time and member of the NSDAP, who was responsible for three death penalties in 1845, who had to resign when a journalist made this public, died a week ago.
Georg Oettinger, currently prime minister of Baden-Wuerttemberg, hold a funeral speech where he made Filbinger a victim of his time, an enemy of the Nazis and even said Filbinger wasn't responsible for any death, currently faces harsh criticism from relatives of the soldiers he killed, politicians from all parties, and the media and organisations, but it's not nearly as much a trouble Imus has caused.

It's not that the people go ok with it, and this is in my eyes a reason for him to resign, especially because he isn't going to apologize but rather justifies this shit.

So it is really hard to understand the scale Imus's remarks have caused for people from "outside".
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:19 PM   #423
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Originally posted by maycocksean o 04-14-2007 09:00 AM -

So today this guy comes up to me, his face red like a rose on a thorn brush, like all the colors of a royal flush and he says:

"You know this Imus thing, this Imus thing. I can't believe Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are now the defenders of all that is good and decent in America. . ."

I'm not clear as to why he felt he needed to tell me this!

I guess the controversy has now spread all the way out here.
I wonder if he sees you as Sean, just a person, his friend?

Based on your post, I think he did not see you as a person, first.


I think he saw race first, much like Imus does, evidenced by many of his remarks.

I find this very sad.


-------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I don't want to derail this thread.

I know this is really about how this affects us white folks,
So let's keep the focus there.
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:24 PM   #424
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Originally posted by Ormus

You and everyone else here have forgotten one major thing here:
Actually several of us have been saying this all along. In fact over and over and over again.

I'm sort of shocked at how intelligent, adult, educated people understand so little about what freedom of speech actually means. They just toss it out there.
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:27 PM   #425
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^ I think that you will find most people are all in favour of free speech until they disagree with it; that and they have the misguided impression that a broadcaster is acting for anybody other than their shareholders.
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:47 PM   #426
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
^ I think that you will find most people are all in favour of free speech until they disagree with it
What's your definition of "free speech"?
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:54 PM   #427
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Hate speech is fine, child porn not okay, criticism of religion okay etc.

There are some finer points on incitement to violence, copyright and defamation but in general I support the maximum ammount of freedom to express ideas without the government stepping in to stop it. Hate speech cuts both ways; if it's legitmate for a Neo-Nazi to spout racism then it shouldn't be any problem for a funamentalist Muslim to declare that Jews are the sons of pigs and apes; but both should be exposed and mocked.
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:57 PM   #428
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Fair enough. As anitram, Ormus, and myself have stated, the government has not stepped in here.
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Old 04-14-2007, 03:59 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Actually several of us have been saying this all along. In fact over and over and over again.

I'm sort of shocked at how intelligent, adult, educated people understand so little about what freedom of speech actually means. They just toss it out there.

being worried about freedom of speech is not necessarily the same thing as being worried about the First Amendment.

just to be clear, i'm aware of the government regulation/restrictions of free speech, and that does not apply here. but one can look at this situation and still worry about freedom of speech, as determined by whatever punishments are metted out, or not, by "society" -- Imus was punished for what he said by the marketplace. but let's not forget that this was a very small story that grew and grew and grew, fomented by "the media" as well as a few specific individuals. i still think it's been an overreaction in the extreme, and i do worry about who's going to be next, who's going to be the next Gotcha! victim, and the lengths that people are now going to go to in order to prevent themselves.
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Old 04-14-2007, 04:01 PM   #430
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Originally posted by ntalwar
Fair enough. As anitram, Ormus, and myself have stated, the government has not stepped in here.
I noted it way back as well, and this is a great counterpoint to the anti-freedom statists that would have censorship in cases like this.
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Old 04-14-2007, 04:11 PM   #431
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

Imus was punished for what he said by the marketplace. but let's not forget that this was a very small story that grew and grew and grew, fomented by "the media" as well as a few specific individuals. i still think it's been an overreaction in the extreme, and i do worry about who's going to be next, who's going to be the next Gotcha! victim, and the lengths that people are now going to go to in order to prevent themselves.
Yes, and a lot of the FCC's policy on what is "decent" has been shaped by the religous right and social conservatives. TV show content ratings, family friendly programming, etc. came about because of political (and economic) pressure. Love or hate people like Al Sharpton, he has the power to call for economic boycotts against corporations, just as the religious right has the clout to call for boycotts against Disney.
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Old 04-14-2007, 04:48 PM   #432
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I guess everyone is getting into the Racial Slur War.

Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

German army in new racism row
POSTED: 10:49 a.m. EDT, April 14, 2007
Story Highlights
• German soldier told to imagine African-Americans while firing, video shows
• Comments by an instructor were captured on video and broadcast on TV
• Defense ministry says it is aware of the video and is investigating
• Video posted on a Web site used by soldiers to exchange private videos
Adjust font size:
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BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- A video showing a German army instructor telling one of his soldiers to envision African-Americans in the Bronx while firing his machine gun was broadcast Saturday on national television.

The video, coming after scandals involving photos of German soldiers posing with skulls in Afghanistan and the abuse of recruits by instructors, seemed likely to raise more questions about training practices in Germany's conscript army.

"We can no longer talk about an isolated case," said Lt. Juergen Rose of the Darmstaedter Signal, a group of current and former army officers and sergeants who independently review military procedures.

"Things like this don't happen in the army on an everyday basis, but unfortunately in recent years there have been a number of comparable incidents."

The Defense Ministry said the video was shot in July 2006 at barracks in the northern town of Rendsburg and that the army has been aware of it since January.

"We are currently investigating the incident," said Florian Naggies, a spokesman for the army and Defense Ministry.

He did not identify the instructor or the soldier, who are shown in camouflage uniforms in a forest.

The instructor tells the soldier, "You are in the Bronx. A black van is stopping in front of you. Three African-Americans are getting out and they are insulting your mother in the worst ways ... Act."

The soldier fires his machine gun several times and yells an obscenity several times in English. The instructor then tells the soldier to curse even louder.

The existence of the video was first reported on the home page of the German news magazine Stern on Friday and excerpts of the video were aired on the news television channel n-tv on Saturday.

According to Stern, the 90-second video had been posted on a Web site used by soldiers to exchange private videos. A soldier who used the site alerted his superiors, the magazine reported.

The video is the latest embarrassment for the German army. Eighteen army instructors are currently on trial for allegedly abusing and humiliating 163 recruits in 2004. Last year, newspapers published photos of German soldiers in Afghanistan posing with a skulls -- including one who exposed himself while holding a skull.
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Old 04-14-2007, 04:58 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


Yes, and a lot of the FCC's policy on what is "decent" has been shaped by the religous right and social conservatives. TV show content ratings, family friendly programming, etc. came about because of political (and economic) pressure. Love or hate people like Al Sharpton, he has the power to call for economic boycotts against corporations, just as the religious right has the clout to call for boycotts against Disney.

no one's disputing his right.

i'm just worried about the effect.
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Old 04-14-2007, 05:04 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



no one's disputing his right.

i'm just worried about the effect.
you are puzzling the feck
right out of me


for who? us white folk?




and it is a Saturday night
I need my feck
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Old 04-14-2007, 05:06 PM   #435
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I guess everyone is getting into the Racial Slur War.

Don't mention the war.
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