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Old 04-12-2007, 11:59 AM   #286
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Originally posted by ntalwar
There is no freedom of speech over the publicly regulated airwaves. If there was, the FCC would not exist and would not issue fines and licenses.
I wouldn't say there is NO freedom of speech, it's just regulated.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:03 PM   #287
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I wouldn't say there is NO freedom of speech, it's just regulated.
True - basically I'm saying that the expectation of 100% free speech does not apply to the airwaves.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:04 PM   #288
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Use to love that show, what exactly happened?
http://media.southparkstudios.com/me...he_episode.mov
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:07 PM   #289
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:08 PM   #290
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I think Imus has been sincere in his apology, is humbled by the experience, and I’m more than ready to move on.

I don’t think anyone’s free speech has been impinged upon—people can make racist comments, those offended can respond, corporations can discipline/fire people they think are liabilities, and everyone is held accountable.

I don’t think this has been blown out of proportion because it has stirred more public discussion of racism, free speech, and where the lines are fuzzy. My hope would be that it shows that people should think before they mouth off some cheap mean-spirited comments for laughs and ratings. For me this is probably more of an issue of compassion than free speech. Just because you can say something doesn’t mean you should.

I also think this is different than Emimen's record. That was art, characters in stories, and not necessarily how Eminem himself feels but which reflects attitudes and issues in our society. I don't know the record well enough to analyze it specifically but in general, that's how I feel about art. Imus was speaking as himself and despite his philanthropical work, revealed that he has racist issues but I'm more than satisfied with his response.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:09 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep




hello Justin,
my friend


It seems my silly post got your attention.

How upset would you be if I had said that a picture of (insert one of your family members here)
looked like a "fat ass whore".

I think you would have a right to be upset, and I would deserve to be punished for insulting a member of your family for no reason.

And if I had a history of doing this again and again I should lose my right to use this message board.


Of course I think you and all members of your family are very good people, and attractive, too.

I also think your photographs are great. I have told you this before.

I just thought you might understand better if I gave you an example that was closer to home.

I hope there are no hard feelings.
No hard feelings Brother Deep. Have a good day.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:11 PM   #292
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:12 PM   #293
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Since we are on the topic of Racism again. I am helping my cousin with her Final Term paper for US history class. She chose to write on the Massacre at Wounded Knee. So as I was digging through the Internet. I found this article on Sitting bull. To think this kind of writing and behavior was tolerable back then is shocking.

Quote:
"The Last Of Sitting Bull"
St. Louis Republic, St. Louis, Missouri
Wednesday, Dec. 17, 1890

The death of Sitting Bull removes one of the obstacles to civilization. He was a greasy savage, who rarely bathed and was liable at any time to become infected with vermin. During the whole of his life he entertained the remarkable delusion that he was a free-born American with some rights in the country of his ancestors. Under this delusion, when civilized immigrants pushed over the Black Hills country in search of gold he considered them trespassers on the lands of his people and tried to keep them out. He was engaged in this absurd and wicked attempt when General Custer surprised his camp in the interests of civilization. Unfortunately for civilization General Custer was mistaken in the number of the savages who had assembled to fight for the land, which they foolishly believed was their birthright, and "a massacre" ensued. That is, it was one of those rare occasions when savagery for the moment had the best of it in a pitched battle with civilization. It was, of course, only for the moment, and Sitting Bull and his followers, who might have been easily and legally hanged as murderers, were granted a temporary respite.

This graciousness of the Great Father they have constantly abused by obstructing civilization in every possible way, especially in the worst way possible by trying to keep their land in a state of barbarism, and by insisting on their own understanding of treaties, regardless of necessary changes in translation into a highly civilized language, and of necessary amendments made in Congress. They have gone on holding ghost dances, complaining about the rations issued to them under treaties, objecting to the way their money was handled by the government, and it is charged on excellent civilized authority, actually stealing from civilized people who have settled on their lands.

Under such circumstances there could have been only one ending for Sitting Bull, and now that it has come he has no complaint to make. There is every reason to believe, therefore, that it was perfectly satisfactory to him. He himself had recognized it as inevitable and had fully made up his mind to it, preferring it to death in what in his barbaric way he called the "stone houses of the Great Father," meaning thereby the penitentiaries in which the Great Father, with the aid of Hon. Powell Clayton, Hon. Poker J. McClure and others of his Sanhedrin, attempts on occasion to incarcerate those who disagree with him in such a way as to inconvenience him.

So when Sitting Bull was surprised and overpowered by the agents of the Great Father, he set his greasy, stolid face into the expression it always took when he was most overcome by the delusion that he was born a native American from native American ancestry. Disarmed and defenceless he sat in the saddle in which he had been put as a preliminary to taking him to prison, and without a change of countenance urged his handful of greasy followers to die free. This idiotic proceeding he kept up until he was shot out of the saddle.

So died Sitting Bull. So was removed one of the last obstacles in the path of progress. He will now make excellent manure for the crops, which will grow over him when his reservation is civilized.

The work of redeeming these excellent lands from barbarism has now reached a point where it can be at once carried to completion. The filth and vermin-infested Sioux and other savages who have pretended a desire to live even under starvation rations and broken treaties will be persuaded by Sitting Bull's example, and a little skillful management of the same kind which converted him from a brutal savage into a good Indian, to stand up where they can be shot out of the way of advancing progress.

Mr. Harrison should continue to act with the same promptness and firmness he has shown in Sitting Bull's case. While one of these barbarians lives to claim an acre of unentered land in the United States he will remain as an obstacle to progress. A firm persistence by the President in the admirably progressive policy he has illustrated in Sitting Bulls case will make good Indians of all the rest of them, bucks, squaws and pappooses. And the future historian will say of them, no doubt, that they died justly, because they owned lands and would not use fine-toothed combs."
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:13 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I don’t think this has been blown out of proportion because it has stirred more public discussion of racism, free speech, and where the lines are fuzzy. My hope would be that it shows that people should think before they mouth off some cheap mean-spirited comments for laughs and ratings. For me this is probably more of an issue of compassion than free speech. Just because you can say something doesn’t mean you should.



while i maintain that the response was out of proportion, i agree that much has been learned in the conversation that has followed. heck, i'm still posting about it, so it's obvious that this situation has hit on a lot of interesting issues.


Quote:
I also think this is different than Emimen's record. That was art, characters in stories, and not necessarily how Eminem himself feels but which reflects attitudes and issues in our society. I don't know the record well enough to analyze it specifically but in general, that's how I feel about art. Imus was speaking as himself and despite his philanthropical work, revealed that he has racist issues but I'm more than satisfied with his response.
i take the point about art, but what about comedy? Imus has maintained that the comment was spoken as part of a comedic segment on his show -- does that make it closer to news or to art?
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:17 PM   #295
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Originally posted by Irvine511



Imus has maintained that the comment was spoken as part of a comedic segment on his show -- does that make it closer to news or to art?
I think Imus rides a thin line. He's a comedian one second and a serious reporter the next second. And sometimes he plays the comedy card all too convieniently.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:19 PM   #296
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Imus isn’t the real bad guy
Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.
By JASON WHITLOCK - Columnist

Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor.

Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred.

The bigots win again.

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.

I ain’t saying Jesse, Al and Vivian are gold-diggas, but they don’t have the heart to mount a legitimate campaign against the real black-folk killas.

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.

Rather than confront this heinous enemy from within, we sit back and wait for someone like Imus to have a slip of the tongue and make the mistake of repeating the things we say about ourselves.

It’s embarrassing. Dave Chappelle was offered $50 million to make racially insensitive jokes about black and white people on TV. He was hailed as a genius. Black comedians routinely crack jokes about white and black people, and we all laugh out loud.

I’m no Don Imus apologist. He and his tiny companion Mike Lupica blasted me after I fell out with ESPN. Imus is a hack.

But, in my view, he didn’t do anything outside the norm for shock jocks and comedians. He also offered an apology. That should’ve been the end of this whole affair. Instead, it’s only the beginning. It’s an opportunity for Stringer, Jackson and Sharpton to step on victim platforms and elevate themselves and their agenda$.

I watched the Rutgers news conference and was ashamed.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke for eight minutes in 1963 at the March on Washington. At the time, black people could be lynched and denied fundamental rights with little thought. With the comments of a talk-show host most of her players had never heard of before last week serving as her excuse, Vivian Stringer rambled on for 30 minutes about the amazing season her team had.

Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that the comments of a man with virtually no connection to the sports world ruined Rutgers’ wonderful season. Had a broadcaster with credibility and a platform in the sports world uttered the words Imus did, I could understand a level of outrage.

But an hourlong press conference over a man who has already apologized, already been suspended and is already insignificant is just plain intellectually dishonest. This is opportunism. This is a distraction.

In the grand scheme, Don Imus is no threat to us in general and no threat to black women in particular. If his words are so powerful and so destructive and must be rebuked so forcefully, then what should we do about the idiot rappers on BET, MTV and every black-owned radio station in the country who use words much more powerful and much more destructive?

I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/col...ason_whitlock/
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:32 PM   #297
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Originally posted by Irvine511



i take the point about art, but what about comedy? Imus has maintained that the comment was spoken as part of a comedic segment on his show -- does that make it closer to news or to art?
Context is everything and I haven't heard the segment, just read his comments. But based on what I've read, I guess I don't quite buy that it was just part of comedic segment. I think he's so used to being nasty that these kinds of things just fly out of his mouth. It didn't sound like he was using humor to make a comment about racism. It just sounded racist to me. When I have time I'll try to hunt down an audiophile and hear it myself (which perhaps I should have done before even engaging in this discussion )



* edited to say that okay maybe context isn't everything but it's an important factor.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:32 PM   #298
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[q]Imus isn’t the real bad guy
Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.
By JASON WHITLOCK - Columnist[/q]

^ speaking as someone who is intimately acquainted with self-hate and with communities that swim in self-hate, there is a lot of wisdom in that article. i don't agree with all points, but this seems to be the start of some genuinely productive dialogue.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:34 PM   #299
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Context is everything and I haven't heard the segment, just read his comments. But based on what I've read, I guess I don't quite buy that it was just part of comedic segment. I think he's so used to being nasty that these kinds of things just fly out of his mouth. It didn't sound like he was using humor to make a comment about racism. It just sounded racist to me. When I have time I'll try to hunt down an audiophile and hear it myself (which perhaps I should have done before even engaging in this discussion )


i think BVS said it well -- he does tread a fine line, and he does make snarly, mean comments all the time. i remember being offended by what he's said about Arabs, calling Ramadan "Rama-lama-ding-dong," which Tim Russert once called him to task for.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:50 PM   #300
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Originally posted by Irvine511


i think BVS said it well -- he does tread a fine line, and he does make snarly, mean comments all the time. i remember being offended by what he's said about Arabs, calling Ramadan "Rama-lama-ding-dong," which Tim Russert once called him to task for.
And unless that kind of humor is used in a context of commenting about racism, then I can only assume that it reflects how the person really feels, even if they think they're "just joking." Many a truth is spoken in jest. I've seen this in myself as well--I'll make a comment, say I'm just kidding, and then feel really embarrassed by the realization that my subconscious self just revealed itself. But when you make your living being that way with no self-analysis behind it, never questioning why you feel a need to always say mean things about others, you have some real problems.
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