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Old 08-16-2002, 01:14 AM   #16
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Originally posted by oktobergirl
I've sent the letter's too. In fact, I've sent letters, called the White House, my congressional reps, donated money to keep Jubilee going.

I'm still calling and doing the duty, but I must admit, I am dismayed by this latest IMF action. I don't doubt Brazil needs the money, believe me. It just sickens me to think about the others in the world that need it too.


It is looking more and more like the O'Neill and all those polititians just wanted a photo op with Bono.

Im' sorry if this comes across as negative. Tomorrow I'll feel better and be more positive. Right now I'm very disappointed.





Hey, do some protesting! If you are really angry at the government the best thing to do is to go to protest rallies and such. There are many protest activities coming up. The Jubilee people will demonstrate in D.C. in September and some other protest activities are planned. This sure as hell won't hurt. If you can't make the protest donate to or join one of the groups that's hosting a demonstration, like Jubilee. Believe me, activist politics works!
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Old 08-16-2002, 04:19 AM   #17
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Just my opinion, please nobody get mad at me for expressing this

Getting the IMF to give more loans to African countries is NOT a solution. The IMF doesn't give the money - it imposes very strict conditions on how the money is used and on how countries must run their economies in order to ensure the IMF get their money back quickly. Besides, the entire continent of Africa is kept in poverty by debt repayments on loans from the IMF so asking to increase those loans and so increase the repayments is not a solution.

When the IMF lends money it imposes Structural Adjustment Programs on the recipeint country. They usually involve measures such as reducing government spending, even where this spending is simply to subsidise food so people are able to feed their families. It might also force countries to decrease tarrifs on imports and exports which have the effect of decreasing the prices farmers can get for their goods and so forcing them further into poverty. One example you've probably heard of is the IMF demanding the introduction of tuition fees in Tanzania, depriving thousands of children of an education.

I think it's great that people here feel so strongly about this and are getting involved in the campaign, it's just that demanding that the IMF give more loans to Africa is not a solution. The IMF does not care about improving the lives of African people, it doesn't care about educating people or providing healthcare and it's not a solution to the problems African countries have.
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Old 08-16-2002, 04:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Just my opinion, please nobody get mad at me for expressing this

Getting the IMF to give more loans to African countries is NOT a solution. The IMF doesn't give the money - it imposes very strict conditions on how the money is used and on how countries must run their economies in order to ensure the IMF get their money back quickly. Besides, the entire continent of Africa is kept in poverty by debt repayments on loans from the IMF so asking to increase those loans and so increase the repayments is not a solution.
The IMF does not care about improving the lives of African people, it doesn't care about educating people or providing healthcare and it's not a solution to the problems African countries have.
Good points FZ. I don't propose more loans to Africa. I propose cancelling the debts , which is why I am an active member of Jubilee and other debt forgiving organizations. I am for forgiving debts when there are some "strings attached". What I am against is giving out BILLIONS of dollars to a county in financial trouble when you have Africa on the other side of the world, starving to death, and dying of a disease that could be MINIMIZED. If we forgive the debts and then provide GRANTS, not loans to countries that can prove they will use it- with guidelines- then I will be satisfied.

I will not be satisfied when George Dubya reduces the amount of money or cancels them altogehter, citing military emergencies, then doles out 30 billion to brazil in loans because their "real" is in trouble.

I cannot get out of my head the image of people in Africa with no access to clean water. That is NOT FAIR, I don't care how corrupt the government. Something must be done. I'm over here ordering crap off the internet ($*@($)!!!) and someone over there is dying from diarreah from contaminated drinking water.
THAT SUCKS
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Old 08-16-2002, 05:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by oktobergirl


Good points FZ. I don't propose more loans to Africa. I propose cancelling the debts , which is why I am an active member of Jubilee and other debt forgiving organizations. I am for forgiving debts when there are some "strings attached". What I am against is giving out BILLIONS of dollars to a county in financial trouble when you have Africa on the other side of the world, starving to death, and dying of a disease that could be MINIMIZED. If we forgive the debts and then provide GRANTS, not loans to countries that can prove they will use it- with guidelines- then I will be satisfied.

I will not be satisfied when George Dubya reduces the amount of money or cancels them altogehter, citing military emergencies, then doles out 30 billion to brazil in loans because their "real" is in trouble.

I cannot get out of my head the image of people in Africa with no access to clean water. That is NOT FAIR, I don't care how corrupt the government. Something must be done. I'm over here ordering crap off the internet ($*@($)!!!) and someone over there is dying from diarreah from contaminated drinking water.
THAT SUCKS

I agree. My sentiments exactly. That's why I wish I could go to one of the demonstrations planned.
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Old 08-27-2002, 10:48 AM   #20
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Just to keep you all informed in case you´re interested. And also to reinforce that we´re not talking about charity here. This is from New York Times, today edition.

16 Banks Pledge Continued Commitment to Brazil
By REUTERS


Brazil's top economic officials persuaded 16 international banks yesterday to maintain their lending at current levels, a move that relieved some but hardly all the anxiety in that country's financial markets.

The banks, including Citigroup and J. P. Morgan Chase of the United States as well as Deutsche Bank and Banco Santander Central Hispano of Europe, pledged to keep up their lending after meeting in Manhattan with Brazil's finance minister and the president of the Brazil's central bank.

What the banks left unsaid is that most had already cut back sharply on their lending as Brazil began edging closer to a financial meltdown.

Earlier this month, the International Monetary Fund negotiated a $30 billion bailout with the Brazilian government. But that package is aimed only at avoiding a default by the government, and it did not solve the credit problems of Brazilian manufacturers and exporters.

Brazilian companies have $8 billion to $10 billion in debt coming due by the end of the year, and analysts estimate that only about 40 percent of the medium- and long-term loans have been rolled over or refinanced in recent months.

The situation affecting exporters, who play a pivotal role in shoring up Brazil's financial position, may be even tighter. Alexandre Schwartsman, an economist at BBA, a Brazilian bank in São Paulo, said anecdotal evidence suggested that only 30 percent of Brazilian export credits were being renewed earlier this summer.

In a statement after yesterday's meeting, the banks stressed their "continued support" for Brazil and vowed to "sustain their general level of business.

"The tone of the meeting was very positive," said William Rhodes, senior vice chairman of Citigroup, in an interview.

Amilio Fraga, president of Brazil's central bank, said the meeting was "better than we had expected."

Investors appeared encouraged, but not jubilant. Brazil's beleaguered currency, the real, climbed slightly when the news first came out but ended the day almost unchanged. The value of Brazilian bonds climbed slightly.

Mr. Schwartsman of BBA said the banks' cautious support might have been the most that was realistic to expect.


PS.: The correct name of the president of Brazil´s central bank is Armínio Fraga.
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:43 PM   #21
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Thanks for posting that follower.

It seems that the IMF is continuing it's loans of billions of dollars to countries that have the potential to pay it back.

I'm thought about this for the past couple of weeks, and I've come to terms that the IMF is there to give out loans to countries in financial trouble. I can accept that, only because I realize I cannot change it.

But what really troubles me in relation to loans given out by the IMF is that the IMF is CAPABLE of getting things done.

Meanwhile, Africa is lost somewhere.... STILL.
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Old 08-27-2002, 02:53 PM   #22
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I understand your point oktobergirl, I´m concerned about Africa like you are. But as rafmed firstly stated, IMF doesn´t really care about that, neither if what they demand from countries like mine are fair or good for its people. The article from NY Times is accurate, in my opinion, that´s why I posted it. I live here, so I supposedly know. Plus I work with finances and loans for companies in general, and small companies in particular, the ones that create jobs. Many of them have been struggling to get their goods exported these past few months because our credit lines have diminished. All I can say is that money is getting more and more scarce and people are loosing their jobs, a situation that really concerns me. When a citizen loose his/her job he/she looses also dignity, as if he/she weren´t a citizen anymore.
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Old 08-27-2002, 03:21 PM   #23
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I understand your point oktobergirl, I´m concerned about Africa like you are. But as rafmed firstly stated, IMF doesn´t really care about that, neither if what they demand from countries like mine are fair or good for its people. The article from NY Times is accurate, in my opinion, that´s why I posted it. I live here, so I supposedly know. Plus I work with finances and loans for companies in general, and small companies in particular, the ones that create jobs. Many of them have been struggling to get their goods exported these past few months because our credit lines have diminished. All I can say is that money is getting more and more scarce and people are loosing their jobs, a situation that really concerns me. When a citizen loose his/her job he/she looses also dignity, as if he/she weren´t a citizen anymore.

Horrors! That's bad news. People are having a tough time all over. Even the U.S. economy is looking less than rosy.
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Old 08-27-2002, 05:44 PM   #24
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I am sure Brazil can use these loans. I am not ANTI Brazil, or anti loan necessarily.

I just think the IMF picks and chooses who they loan to. That is what bugs me about them.

I'm more bitching about the IMF than anything else.

I wish Brazil good luck in the future!
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Old 08-27-2002, 05:49 PM   #25
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I got your message perfectly oktobergirl, thanks.
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