I'm sorry, but I don't find Michael Moore, or his fans, remotely credible. - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

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Old 08-15-2004, 03:43 AM   #91
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Originally posted by shart1780
He makes whoever he dislikes out to be big meanies abusing the poor innocent person. Just watch any of his 'documentaries' and you'll see it. Either the white man is abusing the poor black man or the poor Arab man.
While I agree that MM has taken stuff out of context and has skewed events to show his take on things, I wouldn't brand him a liar just because he has a tendency to misrepresent the truth. He may represent his documentaries as truth but we all know it's just entertainment with facts thrown in here and there. In Columbine, MM shows a very funny adaption of how America came to be. African slaves were brought here to work on cotton fields; remember cotton was king but it wasn't the only crop that was worked on. Cotton made alot of slave owners rich and slavery was the way to the bank. Was Slavery abuse? Yeah.

In F-9/11, there's the piece about an iraqi woman crying hysterically because the US killed her family in an air attack. I don't think the military meant to kill her family but what it shows is the big US military kicking major butt on these poor Iraqi people. There's another segment where they break into an iraqi home in the middle of the night to get a suspected insurgent. There was no knock on the door and no search warrant. What Moore shows is the abusive power of the military. The movie also shows that the Marines in a certain city recruit in poor black areas. Now does this mean that all Marines recruit in black areas? If they do, it's a shame and abuse. If they don't, then MM is not telling the whole story.
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:02 AM   #92
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The Marines are also calling up and sending mailers to every middle class white boy I know, and have for years. The fact is, ALL branches of the military consider every young male, in some cases young person to be a potential recruit. They are very persistent. My cousin told me the recruiter told him 'once he set his sites on a young man he was going to get him or else'.

So that's an idea of how the truth is technically true but misrepresented. Do they target poor blacks? Of course they do. But what they aren't showing you is that they are also targeting all types, but that is left out, so you are left to believe the blacks are targeted more, and that's what Moore wants you to believe, so that's the slant.
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Old 08-15-2004, 12:15 PM   #93
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Shant.

I still await my apology for your ignorant personal attack not only on me but also millions of others.
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Old 08-15-2004, 12:30 PM   #94
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Shant.

I still await my apology for your ignorant personal attack not only on me but also millions of others.
And I wait for the ignorant personal attacks on Catholics, Republicans, Conservative Christians ect. that go on in here all the time.

please.....
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:00 PM   #95
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


You should see the film "Outfoxed" and see what O'Reilly is really all about. He is most definitely all about pulling stuff out of his arse. In fact, the only thing he hasn't pulled out of his arse yet is his head.
Yes, and O'Reilly is quick to pull a "shut up" out of his butt too - among other despicable things he's said. Belligerent and irresponsible journalism at its best.
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Old 08-15-2004, 04:13 PM   #96
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I would agree with this except for the fact that he has cut, spliced, and put together the clips in ways that do not necessarily tell the whole story. It is misleading. Now, this is not to say the nightly news does not do the same thing. I think that Howard Dean was destroyed not by the scream, but by the way the news portrayed the scream, without the before and after, where you can clearly see he was trying to get his supporters out of the dumps from the loss.
I think it drives the press crazy when a politician gets emotional. In their view this was "unpresidential" behavior, and they made a huge deal over it. Likewise MM took bits and pieces to make particular points, like the bin Laden-Bush connections and all the stuff about the Saudis, etc, etc.
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Old 08-16-2004, 04:48 AM   #97
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Originally posted by STING2
U2 may be consider liberal in Alabama, but in Ireland, I think they are probably considered moderate or middle of the road. But to little is known about many of their views, it is a mistake to lable the band, their fans, or question fans of certain political beliefs because their views may or may not agree with the bands views. I'm sure U2 does not mind the millions of Republican's and conservatives who actually buy their music and pay to see them in concert.
I always see those parts of the gig where Bono gets all preachy about stuff (the gun issue during the elevation tour on DVD, for example) as being aimed directly at those Republicans and conservatives in their audience!
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:21 AM   #98
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I always see those parts of the gig where Bono gets all preachy about stuff (the gun issue during the elevation tour on DVD, for example) as being aimed directly at those Republicans and conservatives in their audience!
If that is true, he's quite a jerk. We pay for concerts, not reeducation camps.

But I don't think so. It's just part of the act.
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:23 AM   #99
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I don't really think Bono is going "after the conservatives and Republicans" with the gun thing. I read where Edge said they put that in the show just to make people think, not to preach. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, people in Ireland have a very different mindset about guns. They associate guns with the IRA and terrorist attacks, not with any kind of "freedom" the way many Americans do. U2 are no exception. They mainly wanted to deal with the issue of responsibility for gun owners. They didn't exactly mean to say "this is a sin" or whatever.
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:29 AM   #100
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Verte, I dont mean to imply you are saying this here with your post, but I want to say this. Do guns, which are a weapon of death and violence, truly represent freedom to America?



This of course cannot be answered accurately, or without stereotyping Americans. Neither of which I want to do, but I wonder if it does to some.
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Old 08-16-2004, 10:11 AM   #101
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Verte, I dont mean to imply you are saying this here with your post, but I want to say this. Do guns, which are a weapon of death and violence, truly represent freedom to America?



This of course cannot be answered accurately, or without stereotyping Americans. Neither of which I want to do, but I wonder if it does to some.

In the U.S. many people take the Second Amendment to our Constitution quite seriously. That's the "right to bear arms" Amendment, and some people claim this cost Al Gore the 2000 election. I don't know that I agree with this, Gore did some really stupid things like pulling his campaign out of Ohio ten days before the election, just about giving it to Bush. Yeah, right, you just pitch all of those electoral votes! I personally don't own a gun and never will. The things scare the out of me. But many Americans really do take this seriously.
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Old 08-16-2004, 11:17 AM   #102
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Damn, I had a perfect response all written out and accidently hit the escape button!

Let me try again. Yes, the right to own a gun is something millions of Americans hold dear and consider part of our freedom. While people in Ireland, Australia, or other places cannot understand this and see us as gun toting fools ready to blow each other away, the issue is so much deeper than this.

It comes from our nature, our culture, a country born of the wildnerness, pioneers, militias, the wild west, hunting, and self defense. While it is a tragedy many use this right in the wrong way, other law abiding citizens should not have to pay the price. Millions here do consider it a right, whether or not they want to excercise that right personally (which I do not) Taking away that right is seen as an overstepping of authority against citizens by the government. I find it also very ironic that some of the most ardent gun control supporters are the most liberal, who are always ranting of 'rights' and 'choice' and 'keeping the government out of private lives' Well, I suppose it's only a 'right' and a 'choice' if it's something they believe in, and the government has a right to intrude in the lives of those they disagree with

I also believe, given our history and culture, any attempt to take guns from the public would be met with much opposition. It is also true that most violent non domestic crimes were not committed with legal, registered guns anyway, and there will always be the illegal and black market guns in the wrong hands, regardless.
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Old 08-16-2004, 01:20 PM   #103
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If you want humor then go back to IO: we are not amused
I will follow you out the door...here's hoping you (don't) drown in the drool in PLEBA! ( )
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Old 08-16-2004, 01:27 PM   #104
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Old 08-16-2004, 04:14 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilac
It comes from our nature, our culture, a country born of the wildnerness, pioneers, militias, the wild west, hunting, and self defense. While it is a tragedy many use this right in the wrong way, other law abiding citizens should not have to pay the price.
to play devil's advocate for a bit ...

this kind of reasoning sort of reminds me of how other cultures defend certain issues (female circumcission for example) that make no sense to us

when you look at the figures the amount of gun related death in the US is so high that even if you can explain 50% pointing at other reasons the number is still higher than in other comparable countries

we wouldn't have a lot of problem telling african countries that there obviously is some kind of flaw in their culture if it doesn't protect its own citizens from a higher chance of getting killed
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