I'm sorry, but I don't find Michael Moore, or his fans, remotely credible.

[beli]

oops double post

 

[beli]

Really? Dont they have different views on education, health care, war, blah blah?

One of em must say something that sounds less worse than the other.

Can I just say, as someone who lives in the Rest of the World, that I would quite like it if politicians in the USA always considered the international ramifications of their actions the world may be a better place.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Exactly, this Bono is 'ours' hahaha crap is stupid Are you not allowed to like his music if you don't agree with everything he says?



Right, or Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, or Wiccan. Like the political position, it shouldn't matter if you like the music.

Or are we back to the old 'real fan' stuff again?

Oh give me a fucking break! Ok, I'll bite. No, I don't think you have to be liberal to be a 'true' U2 fan.

However I do think it is fairly clear that Bono has held somewhat liberal sentiments on any number of issues, for many years... and yet, he's ok? Michael Moore is not Ok, but Bono is?

Or to stretch this one to breaking point, what about the Dixie Chicks? Are they ok? I mean maybe they sing some nice songs, but they said all those anti-war things, right? But that doesn't matter right, you don't have to agree with everything someone says to be a fan? Right?

I never said Bono is 'ours'. Fact is I am utterly sick of U2 so I hardly identify with them. There is no 'we', there is only me.

Look guys, I quite like Bob Dylan, but just for the tunes.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Surely no one actually cares what Bono thinks? I cringe every time this vacuous argument arises.

I also hate Bob Dylan

Nice work, K.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Well let's not get too carried away here. Bob Dylan is quite good. His 'live at the Albert Hall' concert is a religious experience for me...

Look guys, this thread needs to be moved to Bang and Clatter.

 

[DaveC]

Thank you shant. According to you I'm not even remotely credible simpy because I read someone's books and see his movies.

Thank you.

I await my apology.

 

[beli]

Look guys, this thread needs to be moved to Bang and Clatter.

I want it moved to Its Official. Lets discuss

 

[Lilac]

Oh give me a fucking break! Ok, I'll bite. No, I don't think you have to be liberal to be a 'true' U2 fan.

Hey don't jump on me, I was only agreeing with someone else (misty) who brought it up first, and she was responding to someone who left the impression if you don't agree with liberal politics how could you be a U2 fan. So that's the background.

However I do think it is fairly clear that Bono has held somewhat liberal sentiments on any number of issues, for many years... and yet, he's ok? Michael Moore is not Ok, but Bono is?

Bono has yet to put out a large scale propaganda movie trying to sway others to his views.

what about the Dixie Chicks? Are they ok?

IMO, no. I do not care for their music, regardless of their politics. Their song "Earl" makes me sick. If men had sang a song about killing their wife, they'd be accused of sexism No I'm not 'taking it too seriously' it just came up when I was thinking of their music.

Look guys, I quite like Bob Dylan, but just for the tunes.

I like Bob Dylan's songs. I don't care what he thinks about politics.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Moore has has absolutly nothing to do with celebrities who become activists, he is an activist who became a celebrity.

 

[zoney!]

Bono has yet to put out a large scale propaganda movie trying to sway others to his views.

I am sorry, but I cannot name a current rockstar who has spewed more liberal propaganda (whether you agree or disagree with it) than Paul "bono Vox" Hewson - an I am SURE he is doing it to "sway others to his views."

Michael Moore and Bono are like twins in this category

 

[Dreadsox]

I am going to be sick... MM and Bono twins?

ALso what is with this apology crap. I have crossed the boarder and defended liberals in this forum when I see people attacking them. Short of Verte coming to my defense and Anitram....very few have sent that courtesy my way when I have been publicly attacked. There have been PLENTY of blanket statements about idiots who support Bush ect. Cry me a river....Don't hold your breath there are no aplogies in here, and blanket statements run rampant, there have been plenty about Evangelical Christians or Catholics that could have been taken personally, but because no one directly uses other posters names so it slides.

I cannot wait until this election is over. The crap in here is starting to stink worse than the campaign ads.

 

[Lilac]

Bono does not 'spew liberal propaganda"

I'm not talking about some quote dragged out of some obscure 20 year old magazine article, or some loose interpretation of some song. The only issue Bono is openly and actively 'spewing' about is the Jubilee/DATA thing, which is bipartisan and has the backing of the not so liberal Pope, as well as people from all ideological spectrums.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Bono embraces common causes that people can generally agree with, most things that may be bigger than partisan politics. Moore on the other hand directs personal attacks against his targets and critics, he supports those murdering US troops then reminds people not to question his patriotism, he makes out like he's the little guy when in fact he is a multi-millionaire who commands his own media kingdom. He deliberately works to piss people off, to bash his opponents credibility and when they are fully smeared walk away victorious, without having achieved a damn thing. What has Moore got to show for all his achievements, a few moderately funny TV Shows and "documentaries" and some throwaway books that appeal to the populist lowest common denominator of "my leader is a dumbass, lets laugh at him". He is doing it all for the money and the publicity, frankly he is a liability to the "left" because if he represents the mainstream, how the hell can there be any decent debate and discourse, politics is only as good as each side and when Moore takes center stage it is just going to be nasty bashing and character assasinations with no in depth discussion of real issues.

Bono is not Moores twin when it comes to swaying other to his views, unless of course Bono goes out and deliberately smears everyone who he disagrees with and writes books to the style of "I hate this man because...". He will try to sway those on all sides of the political spectrum, he has achieved much more than Moore ever did and has maintained his credibility all the while.

 

[zoney!]

I am going to be sick... MM and Bono twins?

hold me closer, tiny dancer.

FYM REALLY lacks a sense of humor!

Lighten up people...if you can't see the humor in Michael Moore and Bono "pratically being twins..." then you you need to push your chair away from the computer and go outside for a bit. Don't take YOURSELF so seriously.

The one thing that I have always hated about FYM is the lack of people with a sense of humor.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Oh I have humour, but the thought of comparing Moore and Bono makes me feel ill. Moore and Limbaugh, Moore and Leni Riefenstahl thats pretty funny but Bono - WTF?

 

[shart1780]

I don't think you guys understand what I'm saying. I don't dislike Moore just because he's an extreme liberal, I just feel like his entire message is based on deception. Like I said before, I know of alot of respectable liberals. For me it's not a matter of liberals and conservatives, more of liars and people who aren't proven to lie.

I used to listen to people like Rush alot more. While I do agree with him alot (or I did... I haven't heard him lately), his attitude kind of annoys me. He's just such a loud mouth. His personal life doesn't make me respect him morally either. I'm not too sure if he's truthful because I haven't listened to him much lately.

Lately I've really liked Bill O'Reilly. You guys probably hate him. The reason I like him is because he doesn't pull stuff out of his arse. If he tells you something you can be sure it was researched and that he looked over ot closely. The fact that what he researches usually ends up leaning more to the right says something to me as well heh heh. I just like people who don't care about right or left, that just care about the truth, even if it sucks.

People that lean too far either way are hard for me too trust. People like Sean Hannity can get on my nerves. He's so inolerant of ANY liberal views it annoys me. Sometimes I'll find myself rooting for Colmes (plus he just seems like a nicer guy).

Moore is just too extreme for me. I would respect him much more if he presented his views in a more... dignified manner. While watching Bowling for Columbine (I haven't see F 9/11 yet) I felt like he was playing with people's emotions so much. I felt like he was trying to make the white, upper classman look evil. the cartoon about black slaves was just ridiculous. He made all whites look like gun crazed jerks, he totally failed to mention ANYTHING aout the whites who fought to free slaves (yes, thousands died for that cause) and he failed to mention that black Africans sold slaves to us. He makes the entire NRA look like gun crazed psychos, which is false. It's proven a miniscule number of NRA memers have ever commited a gun-related crime. He just leaves so many bases (conveniently) uncovered. Same with F 9/11, I've read alot about the film and all of its lies. I've noticed one of Moore's tactics is to tell the half truth. He'll show actual events but he'll show them out of order, giving people the wrong impression, like showing Heston saying the "out of my cold dead hands" line right after the sequence on Columbine, giving the viewers a slightly skewed perspective. He uses half-truths to decieve people.

I'm not saying People like O'Reilly are always a hundred percent truthful, and sometimes I don't like his attitude, but that doesn't really bother me much. I don't watch him for his attitude, I watch him for the facts. I get so tired of people complaining about his attitude and totally evading the issue of if his information is trustworthy. Watch him for his views, not his attitude!!! Plus I've never heard anyone prove him to be a liar, so why should I disrespect him?

 

[beli]

I dont believe people have an issue with you not liking Moore.

Its more (sic) the statement 'I'm sorry, but I don't find Michael Moore, or his fans, remotely credible." and the bit about his followers being ignorant is the issue.

 

[BVS]

This place got funny. Hold on let me get some popcorn....ok continue.

 

[Diemen]

shart,

By "his fans," do you mean those that simply like him or liked his movie or those who completely agree with him? Because I'd like to state for the record that you can be a fan of someone and not completely agree with them, or in fact disagree with them on several issues. So lumping Moore and his fans in the same boat may be a little premature and unfair.

I'll admit, there are quite a few things about Moore I find annoying, and some things just flat out piss me off. However, I think he does raise some very good points, and if you were to watch the film you might realize that some of the best points are those made when Moore isn't doing the talking.

 

[ThatGuy]

http://mediabistro.com/tvnewser/original/cole_transcript_july1.htm

Makes O'Reilly sound almost Moore-ish.

Not that this is about tit-for-tat. Just don't assume anyone in the media is telling you the straight "facts." Ever.

 

[Harper]

Exactly, this Bono is 'ours' hahaha crap is stupid Are you not allowed to like his music if you don't agree with everything he says?

That's always going to be a question related to U2 and their music. They're one of the few bands around that frequently have messages in their songs, and for many of their fans that's what makes them so attractive. I'm not religious, so I'd say "No," you don't have to agree with everything he says. Then again, the ideology of a band or artist does affect me; I'm always repulsed by artists who express far right beliefs, for example. I just don't forget that they wrote "Bullet the blue sky" as a statement against the Reagan administration and very much appeared to support Bill Clinton during his campaign against Bush senior. I remember reading a Bono interview in which he expressed a great deal of optimism after Clinton was elected.

 

[Dreadsox]

hold me closer, tiny dancer.

I have long waited to hear these words from your lips.......

but who are you calling tiny?

 

[Dreadsox]

I'll admit, there are quite a few things about Moore I find annoying, and some things just flat out piss me off. However, I think he does raise some very good points, and if you were to watch the film you might realize that some of the best points are those made when Moore isn't doing the talking.

I would agree with this except for the fact that he has cut, spliced, and put together the clips in ways that do not necessarily tell the whole story. It is misleading. Now, this is not to say the nightly news does not do the same thing. I think that Howard Dean was destroyed not by the scream, but by the way the news portrayed the scream, without the before and after, where you can clearly see he was trying to get his supporters out of the dumps from the loss.

 

[Lilac]

FYM REALLY lacks a sense of humor!


The one thing that I have always hated about FYM is the lack of people with a sense of humor.

If you want humor then go back to IO: we are not amused

 

[A_Wanderer]

Thats the royal we you see

 

[joyfulgirl]

Lately I've really liked Bill O'Reilly. You guys probably hate him. The reason I like him is because he doesn't pull stuff out of his arse. If he tells you something you can be sure it was researched and that he looked over ot closely.

You should see the film "Outfoxed" and see what O'Reilly is really all about. He is most definitely all about pulling stuff out of his arse. In fact, the only thing he hasn't pulled out of his arse yet is his head.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

In fact, the only thing he hasn't pulled out of his arse yet is his head.

Pass the popcorn, BVS.

 

[STING2]

That's always going to be a question related to U2 and their music. They're one of the few bands around that frequently have messages in their songs, and for many of their fans that's what makes them so attractive. I'm not religious, so I'd say "No," you don't have to agree with everything he says. Then again, the ideology of a band or artist does affect me; I'm always repulsed by artists who express far right beliefs, for example. I just don't forget that they wrote "Bullet the blue sky" as a statement against the Reagan administration and very much appeared to support Bill Clinton during his campaign against Bush senior. I remember reading a Bono interview in which he expressed a great deal of optimism after Clinton was elected.

I would say that U2 have a large group of fans that like to lump in all sorts of political views that the band may or may not have. Fact is, most people do not know about the bands political views on a lot of issues. Bullet the Blue Sky was a song slamming the Reagan administration, it was a song that was against the type of intervention the Reagan administration was engaged in, in Central America at the time.

Sunday Bloody Sunday is not a song against all war, but a song against the type of violence and conflict going on in Northern Ireland.

Many liberals lable U2 as pacifist, but in fact, Bono has come out and said that they are not pacifist. Bono and the Edge were disappointed that the United States did not intervene with military action in Bosnia in 1993.( the USA eventually did in 1995)
Bono in the January 2002 issue of HOT PRESS expressed his support for Bush's war efforts at that time and support for the war in Afghanistan. There are many other occasions where Bono has complemented Bush and his administration.

U2 may be consider liberal in Alabama, but in Ireland, I think they are probably considered moderate or middle of the road. But to little is known about many of their views, it is a mistake to lable the band, their fans, or question fans of certain political beliefs because their views may or may not agree with the bands views. I'm sure U2 does not mind the millions of Republican's and conservatives who actually buy their music and pay to see them in concert.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Interventionist Liberal could describe that, willingness to intervene where human rights are directly threatened and force is the best resolution.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

In fact, the only thing he hasn't pulled out of his arse yet is his head.

Hehe.

Sorry, but, yeah, O'Reilly does indeed bug me. He's so freakin' arrogant, for one thing...and that's a trait that I'm not fond of in people, I don't care who they are.

Angela