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Old 07-12-2005, 10:49 AM   #31
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Originally posted by indra
I think perhaps Bono is the wrong messenger for Sami's dad. He's certainly not going to appeal to everyone...many people think he's the world's biggest prick.

For instance, Pat Robertson is would be a hideous messenger for me. I wouldn't believe a single word he said (and that includes conjunctions and articles) without independent verification by several other sources (even more vigorous vetting than what I demand from the usual celebrities), and even then I would be suspicious.

So my suggestion is to leave Bono completely out of your discussions/arguments whith your dad on the subject and cite people he is more apt to respect and believe.
Good point. Maybe it isn't the message, but the messenger. If Dr. Laura or Ann Coulter told me that I should be concerned about Africa, I'm not sure I'd listen. But then again, I'm sure these two bitches are more concerned about Janet Jackson's wayward nipple or evil, vile liberals who aren't as hot as they are. Snerk.
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:50 AM   #32
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(Pardon me for not being as well spoken as many of you have shown above)


Perhaps Bono is the messenger for a certain group/demographic/generation. Like it was said before, he may not appeal to everyone. But he has definitely brought the issue to the forefront and made millions of people around the world more aware of the world and their part in it. If people realize that their voice matters and should be heard, maybe a difference CAN be made. You can't fault him for trying. You can't be resigned to the fact that 'no matter what you do, it doesn't matter' or your 'vote doesn't count'. If he and others had not brought the attention/focus of the world on the G8 and the leaders & the meeting in Scotland, how many people would even know what the G8 was and that they were gathering (myself included). We have to at least try. And I understand the concern about 'throwing money' at countries in Africa with the concern that it will not make it to the people in need. There definitely needs to be accountability, and I believe that was one of the requirements the countries needed to have in place - something about the Millenium Challenge. Again, I'm not very well read on many issues, but I do believe Bono to be a very well read/learned person, and what he doesn't know, he educates himself in. I believe he is passionate about what he believes in, and he is definitely using his celebrity to bring light to this issue. And if he can make a difference...

And just because he's a musician, does that make him any less credible? I would not be listening to the messenger if he/she were some listed above (Pat Robertson, Ann Coulter, etc.). I wouldn't be listening to a religious person, a politician,...but that's just me. Look at the mess America is today, and the divided country it has become...

Music reaches people on so many different levels. What about one of the greatest musicians ever (or at least of my lifetime), John Lennon. He said "Give Peace A Chance", "Power To The People", 'Imagine". Just because these people are not economists, world leaders, politicians, etc., does that mean we shouldn't listen to them, or give them a chance to be heard? And who said non-musicians know any more than the people in power?

What if he can make a difference? What if he can get the ball rolling, put pressure on the powers that be? He's taking a big risk, one that he feels is justified and worth his time and effort. I feel a bit more informed about things because of his efforts. I'm on his side on this one...

Okay, now I'm getting delirious and leaving the topic, aren't I? I just wanted to say something, but probably didn't articulate it well. Oh well, I tried. That's gotta count for something, right?
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:47 AM   #33
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:23 AM   #34
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thanks - my first time in 'free your mind'
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:27 PM   #35
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you guys all have great points. I really just posted that here because it was bothering me and I wanted to get it off my chest, and I needed some more 'ammo' to email him back with. He wasn't particularly angry when he wrote me that email or anything, he is just a very stubborn hard to deal with person. He forms an opinion and sticks with it most of the time. I emailed him back (calmly lol) and he said he agreed with some of the things that I said, but we mostly agreed to disagree.
I didn't want to get into a fight with him now so I just left it at that.
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:41 PM   #36
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here's parts of the email i sent him:

He does do all he can do!! What else would you like him to do? Just because he has more money than most people, he doesn't have to donate every penny he has. Angelina doesn't donate every penny she has. What more can he do than meet with world leaders about the issues he believes in? What more can he do than start these worldwide campaigns to get his causes noticed?Just because his donations aren't public doesn't mean he doesn't donate. There is no reason for him to make his charity public. Do you hear all the time about Angelina donating money? No, you hear about her UN work. Does that make her any less of a good person? absolutely not. Because I'm sure she donates PLENTY of money to places she cares about...
(he sent me something saying how at least Angelina Jolie was part of the UN)

...so don't say that Bono doesn't do anything and that he's not a
charitable orgainzation or whatever. Lead by example. What better example can you set than doing all that he's done in the past 20 years? He doesn't have to donate all of his money to be a good example. But again, he donates much more than the public knows about.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing. Why not? Why can't he try and use his celebrity and his money and "power" to do good for Africa?



he sent me this and that's it...I didn't want to get into a fight or anything:

You certainly make valid points. Perhaps I underestimate Bono. I just don't want to be lectured to or made to feel badly about my or my country's contributions to charitable causes. Hey I give...to MS, the American Heart Association and other charities that take up causes important to me.

The US gets shit on and is resented by the entire world for living the free, capitalistic life we lead. Every country on Earth wishes they were us and/or wishes that we were dead so they can taste our prosperity without earning it the way we have.

How sad that most of these same sovereigns have their hands out 24/7 to take advantage of our unprecedented benevolence while simultaneously taking the opportunity to stab us in the back (or worse) at any opportunity.

We're the world's policeman, the last standing true economic and
military superpower but it's not enough. My father once asked me if I thought it was better to be feared or loved. I always used to answer "loved, of course!" in my idealistic youth but now that I'm in my 40's and have a better fix for how the world really works I'm just not sure anymore.

Sure, Bono is doing some good in the world, which is more than I can say for most. There's a fine line between pompous, self-righteous grandstanding under the "Charitable Donations Accepted Here" banner and truly doing "God's work", whatever that is.

He just comes across as full of himself. I liked him better when I saw him from the 2nd row in MSG in the early 80's. He was a
singer/songwriter in a punk rock band and he was awesome. He sang about politically charged subjects but did so in a way that was much easier for his audience to buy into. I respect what he's trying to do, I just don't always agree with the way he's trying to do it.




and I know, I know he sounds like a complete idiot in the second and third paragraphs...but I wasn't about to start with him.
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lila64
And just because he's a musician, does that make him any less credible? I would not be listening to the messenger if he/she were some listed above (Pat Robertson, Ann Coulter, etc.). I wouldn't be listening to a religious person, a politician,...but that's just me. Look at the mess America is today, and the divided country it has become...

Music reaches people on so many different levels. What about one of the greatest musicians ever (or at least of my lifetime), John Lennon. He said "Give Peace A Chance", "Power To The People", 'Imagine". Just because these people are not economists, world leaders, politicians, etc., does that mean we shouldn't listen to them, or give them a chance to be heard? And who said non-musicians know any more than the people in power?

I certainly agree with you on this. The smartest person I know is a musician, and he says he can be chatting away with someone on a plane and having a great conversation. Then the other guy will ask him "so what do you do?" and when he says "I'm in a rock band" the other guy almost always goes "Oh." and ignores him for the rest of the flight. All of a sudden he's not worth talking to. Go figure.


Quote:
thanks - my first time in 'free your mind'
And you lived! Cangratulations!
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Old 07-13-2005, 04:13 PM   #38
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Some good points...BUT I am sick and tired of people always saying "spending our hard earned money" - first off NONE of the money that these governments are giving would ever be seen or for that matter spent by you - you being the average citizen. The Government is a MONSTER that is full of MONEY that neither YOU or I will EVER see no matter what they decide to spend it on SO WHY NOT SPEND IT ON PEOPLE WHO TRULY NEED IT. Nuff said.
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Old 07-13-2005, 05:58 PM   #39
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thanks indra
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lila64
thanks indra
You're welcome.

I just wish I had noticed I misspelled congratulations....
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lila64
thanks - my first time in 'free your mind'
Personally, I found your post was articulate and well balanced.

PS. They're quite nice in here really when you get to know them. I've not been in FYM for long either.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:42 PM   #42
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thanks sally

Yeah, last night I surfed into here, but I couldn't leave without posting, but I had to wait a bit til I could formulate a response. Maybe I'll come back again
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by sami0201
I emailed him back (calmly lol) and he said he agreed with some of the things that I said, but we mostly agreed to disagree.
I didn't want to get into a fight with him now so I just left it at that.
I don't blame you. Smart move... I fear that ptherwise we could have all been sat here waving sticks at each other for ages!

Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
The Government is a MONSTER that is full of MONEY that neither YOU or I will EVER see no matter what they decide to spend it on SO WHY NOT SPEND IT ON PEOPLE WHO TRULY NEED IT. Nuff said.
I LIKE your STYLE Harry VEST of typing EVERY few Words IN capsLOCK.


I can't talk - I'm well known for overuse of various punctuation marks - like that... and that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lila64
thanks sally

Yeah, last night I surfed into here, but I couldn't leave without posting, but I had to wait a bit til I could formulate a response. Maybe I'll come back again
You're welcome my friend.

Be brave and come back soon! I'll make sure they stay on their leads so you don't get bitten. AARRGGHH - I'm gonna be in trouble here now!!!
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Old 07-15-2005, 05:05 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I certainly agree with you on this. The smartest person I know is a musician, and he says he can be chatting away with someone on a plane and having a great conversation. Then the other guy will ask him "so what do you do?" and when he says "I'm in a rock band" the other guy almost always goes "Oh." and ignores him for the rest of the flight. All of a sudden he's not worth talking to. Go figure.

I agree also.

In my view, the general public does not treat celebrities (or musicians) seriously. We are constantly bombarded with trashy tabloid celebrity magazines telling us tales of celebrities reacting angrily after being squirted in the face with water or throwing phones at hotel officials. We hear many stories of celebrities behaving outrageously that people don’t normally expect celebrities to be normal and adjusted human beings with intelligent views on various issues.

Many people sneer at Bono and his efforts because:

a) He’s a rockstar. You all know what the stereotype of a rockstar is: self-indulgent, womanizing, party every night drug addict.

b) They think that he’s simply in it for publicity.

c) They think that he’s only solution is to “throw money at it”. I have to throw my arms in frustration every single fucking time I hear this accusation. Do these people know about DATA? Have they actually read/seen any of his interviews? Do they know that the B man is actually quite educated and well-informed with this complex issue? Do they know that he’s has the backing of the most brilliant economic thinkers and the most powerful people in the world? Do they know that he wrote the forward to Jeffrey Sachs’ book “The End of Poverty”, possibly one of the boldest books written in the last couple of years?

Perhaps that’s why Bono is recruiting all kinds of people along the political/religious spectrum. Different people can appeal to a different audiences. Perhaps I can see why people may be a bit skeptical of Bono. I agree with Indra: if I see Pat Robertson on the television telling me to support Africa, I may see it as another campaign to gain more followers disguised as a call for aid. My mum for instance probably won't listen to Bono about Africa, but she might listen to someone like The Dalai Lama for instance.

Anyway…end of rant.
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Old 07-15-2005, 09:36 AM   #45
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