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Old 08-10-2006, 03:35 PM   #76
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The Muslim belief is that you can get to God by doing good deeds. This is impossible ... who could ever do enough good deeds to get to God? No one. It is a religion based off of works, and that is a dead end every time.


and let me guess ... the Bible told you this!
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:37 PM   #77
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Are you claiming it is possible for a person to live a life in which all of their good deeds outweigh the bad?
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:39 PM   #78
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Are you claiming it is possible for a person to live a life in which all of their good deeds outweigh the bad?


that's kind of the life i'm living right now.

i would imagine it's true for pretty much everyone on this board.

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Old 08-10-2006, 03:42 PM   #79
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I would imagine you are very wrong. Think about every lie, every hurtful word, every wrong thing you've ever done in your entire life ... there is no one who can say they have done more good than bad.
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:43 PM   #80
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Are you claiming it is possible for a person to live a life in which all of their good deeds outweigh the bad?
Zakah is but one of the five pillars as you would well know, having studied Islam. That deeds can be measured in such a way as to tabulate good versus bad is a Christian view.
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:45 PM   #81
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I would imagine you are very wrong. Think about every lie, every hurtful word, every wrong thing you've ever done in your entire life ... there is no one who can say they have done more good than bad.


i honestly don't agree with you.

of course i've lied, of course i've said bad things, but i do tend to do things in good faith, as do most people who are simply trying to get through the day.

you're also pretending that there's some objective standard here -- tell me, is it okay to lie in some situations but not in others?
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:47 PM   #82
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I've spoken to Muslims who claim that Allah wants everyone to do the 5 pillars ... but no one knows what happens if you only do 3 or 4. Only Allah knows that. And also .... in the Koran, it says that Allah hates those who aren't believers. What kind of a God hates?

There is no good/bad in the Bible view. None. We can only be saved by God's grace and mercy. There is nothing we can do to be saved ... no pilgrimage to the Holy Land, no fasting, nothing. Just believing and accepting Jesus' blood that saves us.
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:54 PM   #83
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I've spoken to Muslims who claim that Allah wants everyone to do the 5 pillars ... but no one knows what happens if you only do 3 or 4. Only Allah knows that. And also .... in the Koran, it says that Allah hates those who aren't believers. What kind of a God hates?

There is no good/bad in the Bible view. None. We can only be saved by God's grace and mercy. There is nothing we can do to be saved ... no pilgrimage to the Holy Land, no fasting, nothing. Just believing and accepting Jesus' blood that saves us.
Tell me, if there's nothing you can do why even attempt to live what I've heard refered to as a 'good, Christian life in accordance with the Scripture'? If there's nothing you can do then why are Christians so determined to regulate or ban everything that conflicts with such a narrow view of what a good life is.

And as for the pillars: The Holy Q'uran is peppered with exceptions. E.g. Hajj is only required if you can afford it and if it does not unduly damage your healt or well-being. Same thing with Sawm. A pregnant woman is under no compulsion to fast.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:00 PM   #84
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The Bible says that lying is a sin ... it is wrong to lie always.

I live my life knowing that I am saved by God's grace alone. There is nothing I can do to gain my way into heaven. With that being said, I live a good life not to get anything, but to please God, and to be a good ambassador. What kind of person would I be if I claimed to love God (because He first loved me) and yet I was killing and stealing and living a bad life.

My motive is to please God, but not to gain access to heaven.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:09 PM   #85
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Originally posted by netminder0
The Bible says that lying is a sin ... it is wrong to lie always.

I live my life knowing that I am saved by God's grace alone. There is nothing I can do to gain my way into heaven. With that being said, I live a good life not to get anything, but to please God, and to be a good ambassador. What kind of person would I be if I claimed to love God (because He first loved me) and yet I was killing and stealing and living a bad life.

My motive is to please God, but not to gain access to heaven.
According to what you believe the "kind of person" you would be would not matter, right? because you believe in God's grace.

And if your motive is not go gain access to heaven then what is the use of your belief in God's grace?
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:13 PM   #86
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ok getting on with it..im scared to be raptured into heaven because i may not be good enough..i don't wanna confess my sins, i wanna live my life, i wanna get married, i wanna have a relation ship..i wanna be an adult! For the first time in almost a year i went to church last Sunday with a friend..it felt good but i felt like "if i don't do this all the time i might get stuck here, i might not get into heaven". i mean from time to time i read my bible, but my family doesn't go to church...my dad thinks the bible has been changed so many times it just crap..we have about 10 bibles in our house i don't get it at all, ok getting back on track...its hard to worship when you have nothing to worship..i never talk about god, i never talk about the bible. i have though excepted god into my heart and i have gone to confession. i pray a lot and i know i have him around me but i just don't know. Every one keeps telling me he's coming and its really overwellming when people are telling you that soon you're going to have to confess and you're going to see the devil and you're going to see god and Jesus and your convertible world is going to go to the shits soon..i mean i can't take it!! i feel like oh shit i suck at religion and i suck at worshiping god and how can i do this if i don't know what im talking about..its hard, i know what i want i just don't know how to get it!! I have kinda switched tracks a little, going from being raptured to god and stuff but it was nice to get off my chest
Considering the way this thread has unfolded --I think perhaps you might be better off discussing all this with your priest, local youth group leader, or similar...in other words, someone who actually knows you personally and is thus in a position to actually take a personal interest in your issues.

I suspect this discussion has strayed pretty far from what you intended...though unfortunately, that may be inevitable given the topic. As the thread starter, you do have the right to request that this be redirected or closed if you are unhappy with that; and if so, let me know. Otherwise, for the time being, I'll let this discussion proceed so long as it stays reasonably civil.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:13 PM   #87
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God's grace is everything ... He is kind enough to have provided a way for men to get to heaven ... His grace is what caused Him to send His Son Jesus to die in all of our places ... so now, we don't have to die. Those who accept God's free gift of salvation, by believing in Jesus, are no longer held accountable for their sins, because Jesus bore God's wrath.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:15 PM   #88
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You are avoiding my question. you have just said what you believe, nothing else.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:20 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by netminder0
The Muslim belief is that you can get to God by doing good deeds. This is impossible ... who could ever do enough good deeds to get to God? No one. It is a religion based off of works, and that is a dead end every time.
This isn't disproving anything.

It's only disproved by your faith.

Your faith, which is commendable, is only faith not fact. Faith doesn't equal absolute truth.

And so far that's all you've spouted is your faith.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:21 PM   #90
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No, you asked me what is the point of God's grace ... and I answered by saying it is everything. Without God's grace, we would have no hope.
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