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Old 08-10-2006, 01:35 PM   #16
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because we all know the Jews get vaporized (with all the other non-Christians) during the rapture

don't, like, half of them get saved because they build that temple thing?

it's only half who get vaporized.

http://www.cufi.org/
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:43 PM   #17
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Its more like 144,000 ... 12,000 from each tribe.

Many people look at it like you guys do ... if God doesn't love me for who I am, then I don't want anything to do with Him. But you're missing the point. You're a sinner ... I am a sinner ... we are all sinners. We all need to be cleansed from our sins, because our sins have separated us from God. You can't get back over to God, unless you do something about your sins. And until you do, you are just living a dead religion.
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:50 PM   #18
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Many people look at it like you guys do ... if God doesn't love me for who I am, then I don't want anything to do with Him. But you're missing the point. You're a sinner ... I am a sinner ... we are all sinners. We all need to be cleansed from our sins, because our sins have separated us from God. You can't get back over to God, unless you do something about your sins. And until you do, you are just living a dead religion.


oh, good. it's settled then.

cake for everyone!
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:50 PM   #19
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Do you not comprehend that everyone here isn't a Christian and this constant blather about "you're sinners!!" means absolutely nothing to some of those people?
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:54 PM   #20
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I didn't know I was saying it constantly. I thought I just said it in my last post.
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:55 PM   #21
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Originally posted by netminder0
Its more like 144,000 ... 12,000 from each tribe.

What is this from?
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:56 PM   #22
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Originally posted by netminder0
I didn't know I was saying it constantly. I thought I just said it in my last post.
Wasn't directed just at you - it's a constant on this forum, this reference to "we're all sinners" and I can tell you that it means nothing to people who don't share your faith.

You think you found your truth. But their truth is not your truth.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:06 PM   #23
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The Bible speaks of the 144,000 Israelites sealed in Revelation 7.

And I understand that maybe the idea that we're all sinners won't impact them greatly, but it does convey what the Bible says, which I believe is the truth. And you may say that the Bible is my truth and not theirs, but I would have to disagree. There can only be one universal truth. Truth isn't a matter of interpretation. What is truth, is truth, whether someone believes it or not.

For example, if one person says that 2 plus 2 equals 4, and the other that 2 plus 2 equals 22, then one must be wrong. 2 plus 2 cannot be anything other than 4, ever ... no matter what. Person 2 might believe that 2 plus 2 is 22, but they are wrong.

My point is ... the Bible is truth for everyone .. however some people choose not to believe it, and want truth to be whatever they believe.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:11 PM   #24
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My point is ... the Bible is truth for everyone .. however some people choose not to believe it, and want truth to be whatever they believe.


many paths, netminder, many paths.

one day, humility, tolerance, and respect will find you.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:13 PM   #25
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I agree with anitram.

The truth to me is that I don't like seeing a young girl feeling doubt and uncertainty about her life and future because of a visit to a religious centre. I don't like reading her anxiousness and fears about her purpose because of interpretations of vaguely written documents from thousands of years ago by a guy at a pulpit. A lot of people believe Nostrodomus was the truth too but I don't agree with them either. This truth you describe is the very thing that caused me to rebuke God.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:20 PM   #26
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What do you mean 'many paths'? Are you saying that nothing is absolute? Are you saying that there is no way that only one way works?

First of all, this may sound somewhat prideful, but I know that I am more humble than the average person. Secondly, I am very tolerant of other people ... I make a point to love everyone, no matter who they are. Also, who have I disrespected here? By saying that there is only one, true way, I have been disrespectful?

All I'm saying is that no one (myself included) is perfect ... which means we all need Jesus. I'm not saying we all need to go to church, or we all need religion ... I'm saying that we all need Jesus.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by netminder0
The Bible speaks of the 144,000 Israelites sealed in Revelation 7.
So what's the point of free will, if those marked is already determined.

This is why I have a problem with literalism.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:31 PM   #28
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What do you mean 'many paths'? Are you saying that nothing is absolute? Are you saying that there is no way that only one way works?

What about those that don't get to hear your truth due to geography? Time? or sheltered lives?
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:31 PM   #29
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What do you mean 'many paths'? Are you saying that nothing is absolute? Are you saying that there is no way that only one way works?


yes, that's what i'm saying. i hope you'll get to meet all the Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims who will be in heaven with you.


[q]First of all, this may sound somewhat prideful, but I know that I am more humble than the average person. Secondly, I am very tolerant of other people ... I make a point to love everyone, no matter who they are. Also, who have I disrespected here? By saying that there is only one, true way, I have been disrespectful?[/q]

the first sentence pretty much explains the whole problem i have and just how self-serving it all is -- the whole, "oh, it's not me that's saying this, it's God" / "oh, i love everyone, even the non-saved." no, it is you that is saying it, offering up a rock-solid worldview that divides everyone up into saved/non-saved does little but increase your own sense of self-worth.


Quote:
All I'm saying is that no one (myself included) is perfect ... which means we all need Jesus. I'm not saying we all need to go to church, or we all need religion ... I'm saying that we all need Jesus.

nope. lots of people don't need Jesus. in fact, most of the planet doesn't need Jesus. to insist that anyone, beyond you, "needs" Jesus is the height of cultural arrogance.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:41 PM   #30
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First off, if you believe God and what He says in the Bible, then you would believe that He is a just and fair God. He would never condemn anyone who shouldn't be condemned, and He wouldn't save anyone who shouldn't be saved. He is just.
God reveals Himself to everyone who truly wants to find Him. We do have free will. Those 144,000 are people that actually choose to follow God. They have lived lives that glorify Him ... because they choose to.

The Bible includes many accounts of people that sought God, and He revealed Himself to them. Acts 8:26-38
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