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Old 09-03-2005, 10:11 PM   #46
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Originally posted by shart1780
Well, they're criminals... maybe we should treat them as such.
That certainly sounds like Bush's "compassionate conservatism" to me.

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Old 09-03-2005, 10:24 PM   #47
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You're stereotyping, melon!

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Old 09-04-2005, 05:20 PM   #48
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
I think we should just let any immigrants who want to come here do so. If they're good, hard-working citizens, they stay. If they start causing trouble, they get punished/sent back.
If you deport the rabble rousers and the borders are open, there's nothing stopping them from coming back in.

Your solution is simple. It simply ensures that uselessness is the motto of the immigration philosophy you support.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:34 PM   #49
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Macfisto, Melon, Shart1780 and anyone else on this thread who has bitched about immigrants, it seems that a solution to your problems is in sight, given the obvious incompetence of the authorities of the USA in dealing with the recent hurricane, i.e. who would want to immigrate to a country that treats its poor citizens like dirt?

Personally I have no desire to immigrate to the USA any time soon, I would rather immigrate to Guatemala to be honest.

And Melon, I thought you were brighter than that. Unless I misintrepreted your post, I'm truly disappointed that you've bought into this anti-immigrant bullshitology.

In five years time, if the USA keeps going the way it has been, no-one with a free choice will want to live in the USA, unless the people of the USA do the right thing and impeach Bush/Cheney.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:39 PM   #50
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Originally posted by blueeyedgirl
What is the colour of your skin again? As I thought, you are not a native of your country either.

I would recommend you read sulawesigirl4's post again and reconsider.

You have hit the nail on the head here, every single one on the people that have bitched about immigrants on this thread are themselves descended from immigrants.


The hypocrisy is honestly staggering.


Next time I need an emetic, I'll log onto FYM and read one of these threads about immigration, 'cos I'm honestly about to puke. I'll leave my comments about the issue at that, cos if you insult another member you get banned, but it's ok to insult an entire race of people seemingly (unless you insult Americans, that's a big no-no on here).
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:43 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
If you deport the rabble rousers and the borders are open, there's nothing stopping them from coming back in.
Not necessarily. If we either send them back and let their own government punish them appropriately, or we keep them here and put them in jail, or something along those lines, it'll be at least a bit harder for them to go back on the streets and commit more crimes, if not impossible.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
Your solution is simple. It simply ensures that uselessness is the motto of the immigration philosophy you support.
...uh, no...how do you get that ?

Angela
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:50 PM   #52
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Originally posted by financeguy
Personally I have no desire to immigrate to the USA any time soon, I would rather immigrate to Guatemala to be honest.

And Melon, I thought you were brighter than that. Unless I misintrepreted your post, I'm truly disappointed that you've bought into this anti-immigrant bullshitology.

In five years time, if the USA keeps going the way it has been, no-one with a free choice will want to live in the USA, unless the people of the USA do the right thing and impeach Bush/Cheney.
I believe in legal immigration, which I have no problem being loosened...as long as immigration laws in places like Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. are loosened enough that I could go there just as easily. Absent that from happening, the U.S. isn't a charity, and the solution to the world's problems is not having everyone move here. On the contrary, it gives people like Mexican President Fox an excuse to sit back and do nothing in their own damn country.

And illegal immigration isn't a panacea to everyone's problems either. Without them being legal, what's the point of following any other laws with them? And there's the problem. Many employers that willingly hire illegal immigrants pay less than minimum wage and ignore all labor laws that we've taken for granted the last 100 years. Plus, none of these people pay taxes, and, yet, still demand full social services. If I jumped to any country illegally, I'm pretty sure I'd get deported with no social services, so why should the U.S. be a charity?

Oh and to let you know, in five years time, Bush/Cheney will no longer be in office. That's what term limits are for.

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Old 09-05-2005, 08:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Not necessarily. If we either send them back and let their own government punish them appropriately, or we keep them here and put them in jail, or something along those lines, it'll be at least a bit harder for them to go back on the streets and commit more crimes, if not impossible.

Angela
That's the thing, the Mexican government isn't doing anything about it. They won't care if we deport them to their country. We already do. They don't imprison them. Are you just hoping they will do the right thing? Such works in a fairytale world, but rarely is it ever so here.

What is the point of waiting for illegal immigrants to come into the country and commit crimes before they're punished? Entering the US illegally is a crime. Once they come across the border, they have broken the law. They don't care that it's a crime. The only solution is to tighten the border security, so we don't have to play catch-up later and arrest them when they're further in the country.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
That's the thing, the Mexican government isn't doing anything about it. They won't care if we deport them to their country. We already do. They don't imprison them. Are you just hoping they will do the right thing? Such works in a fairytale world, but rarely is it ever so here.
I understand some areas are very lax about punishments for those who come back into their borders, but there may be some areas where people will give the appropriate punishments. Keep in mind, after all, the U.S. has made some blunders in regards to jailing people, too. Nobody's perfect.

And besides that, okay, again, if we don't want to deport them back to their country because of things like that, then we can put them in jail here. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
What is the point of waiting for illegal immigrants to come into the country and commit crimes before they're punished? Entering the US illegally is a crime. Once they come across the border, they have broken the law.
Well, that's what I'm saying, we shouldn't have such a thing as illegal immigration to begin with. Why can't we just let people come in who want to come in, why do we have to make it so tough for people? It just seems stupid to me to suggest we tighten the borders, 'cause it just makes it seem like we assume they're all going to come here and cause trouble. Some do, some don't. So why not just make all immigration legal, let people come here, and if someone causes trouble, we find a way to deal with them, and if someone doesn't cause trouble, then we leave them be?

It's just that, you know, we talk all the time about how this is the land of opportunity and freedom. We pride ourselves on those things. And yet we want to restrict our borders to immigrants? Pardon me if that comes off as a bit confusing to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
They don't care that it's a crime.
Well, some people aren't necessarily able to go the legal route for various reasons, which has been discussed in this thread. If you're fleeing a war-torn country, for instance, going through a bunch of red tape to get here legally may not be your first concern. You just want to get somewhere safe.

And again, I just don't think we should make it so restrictive to begin with. This wouldn't be a crime, wouldn't be a concern, if we made immigration in general legal and not so restrictive.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
The only solution is to tighten the border security, so we don't have to play catch-up later and arrest them when they're further in the country.
But by tightening the boarders more, you'd just be getting more illegal immigrants. It wouldn't stop anything. The more restrictive things are, the more likely people are to rebel and break the law.

Angela
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:07 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Well, that's what I'm saying, we shouldn't have such a thing as illegal immigration to begin with. Why can't we just let people come in who want to come in, why do we have to make it so tough for people? It just seems stupid to me to suggest we tighten the borders, 'cause it just makes it seem like we assume they're all going to come here and cause trouble. Some do, some don't. So why not just make all immigration legal, let people come here, and if someone causes trouble, we find a way to deal with them, and if someone doesn't cause trouble, then we leave them be?

It's just that, you know, we talk all the time about how this is the land of opportunity and freedom. We pride ourselves on those things. And yet we want to restrict our borders to immigrants? Pardon me if that comes off as a bit confusing to me.



Well, some people aren't necessarily able to go the legal route for various reasons, which has been discussed in this thread. If you're fleeing a war-torn country, for instance, going through a bunch of red tape to get here legally may not be your first concern. You just want to get somewhere safe.

And again, I just don't think we should make it so restrictive to begin with. This wouldn't be a crime, wouldn't be a concern, if we made immigration in general legal and not so restrictive.



But by tightening the boarders more, you'd just be getting more illegal immigrants. It wouldn't stop anything. The more restrictive things are, the more likely people are to rebel and break the law.

Angela
There is a point to having border restrictions. It is mostly a security reason. It always has been. Way before 9/11 it was the motivation behind having a secure border. If there had never been any restrictions, I can assure you there would be no countries in the world. They would have all been destroyed by armies, terrorists, and disorgaization. It is crucial to know who is coming into the country, how many there are, and where they are coming from. With an open border, security would be gone.

If people are fleeing from a war torn country, they are processed before they legally are allowed in the country. That doesn't mean they are shut out and not taken care of. Many nations that have adopted refugees have cared for them before admitting them officially. So it's not like there's an excuse to enter illegally on your own will when you're fleeing from war.

If there was a fear of more illegal immigrants coming over the border with tighter security it would be completely irrational. That's like saying we shouldn't have more police on the streets because that will make crime go up. It makes no sense.
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