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Old 07-22-2005, 12:29 PM   #16
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Originally posted by melon
I'm often reminded of the "Bear Patrol" episode of "The Simpsons." A bear wanders into Springfield, everyone gets scared, and so they spend what seems like billions of dollars on a "Bear Patrol." No bears show up, so they presume the "Bear Patrol" is working.

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:40 PM   #17
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It's a balance...on the one hand, migrant workers and illegal immigrants in general help keep prices low and will always be necessary to some degree. No one in the government will ever work to completely bar illegal immigrants. On the other hand, they are putting a huge burden on government programs, mostly in a few particular states. It is a problem, it's not imaginary, it needs to be controlled. Not that I have any idea how...

Anyway, I suppose it's good that this rule will mainly benefit people who were brought here as kids. It wasn't really their fault, college education helps integrate immigrants into society, etc. It is kind of crappy how much you have to pay to go out of state though, I guess I'll be stuck in Georgia forever...
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:56 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
So should a college student who who has lived in Texas his/her entire life be penalized because of a choice the parents made? Being brought across the border illegally as a child isn't something they had any control over.

I guess you could say the parents should have thought about that before they made the choice to break the law but again, why should someone who was not of legal age when they were brought here be held responsible for the parent's choice?
I'm not sure it is a penalty. The child has already received the benefit of services of this country (elementary school) and the parents have presumably enjoyed a higher income since they entered this country.

To simply add on more benefits increases the burden to the rest of society.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I'm not sure it is a penalty. The child has already received the benefit of services of this country (elementary school) and the parents have presumably enjoyed a higher income since they entered this country.

To simply add on more benefits increases the burden to the rest of society.
Surely it has to be regarded as a penalty - it would mean that the child of an illegal immigrant couldn't qualify for a lower-rate of tuition despite the fact that their place of residence would otherwise qualify them for the lower-rate. In addition, denying access to student loans or grants is certainly a penalty.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:08 PM   #20
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I should dig around the local paper archives and try to find it. This was an issue that recently became a hot button one when an illegal wanted to attend CU, but would have to pay out of state if he did so.

If he attended my school, they said he could get the in state. But no. He wanted to go to CU-Boulder because my school wasn't good enough for him.

Finally, someone in government handed him the money to go to CU-Boulder and he ended up going for free, if I remember correctly.

It's that kind of a story that feels like a real slap in the face to the poorer college student.
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Old 07-22-2005, 04:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'm not sure it is a penalty. The child has already received the benefit of services of this country (elementary school) and the parents have presumably enjoyed a higher income since they entered this country.
Not that I'm justifying illegal immigration, but they presumably don't enjoy that much higher of an income. The perceived benefit of hiring illegal labor is that you don't have to worry about minimum wage laws or other labor laws that supply-siders would love to throw away.

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Old 07-22-2005, 05:33 PM   #22
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I don't see how it affects you that someone else is getting help. You should be upset if they were talking something away from you and nobody is.

I'm telling you this because I live in Honduras and would've loved to be able to study at the states but I couldn't afford it.

Don't be mad about someone else's blessings if they aren't your curse.
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Old 07-22-2005, 08:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
So should a college student who who has lived in Texas his/her entire life be penalized because of a choice the parents made? Being brought across the border illegally as a child isn't something they had any control over.

I guess you could say the parents should have thought about that before they made the choice to break the law but again, why should someone who was not of legal age when they were brought here be held responsible for the parent's choice?
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Old 07-22-2005, 08:47 PM   #24
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My friend attended UAA on scholarships throughout her four years. Not once was she eligible for any grants, or the permanent fund that Alaskan residents get.
She is now in law school in Florida, and she said she took out a college loan, for which she has to pay back. She also said she wished she got just a little bit of a grant to help her out.

Maybe they get loans but not grants? Sounds fair play to me.
And they have to become US citizens before they get to work here, meaning a lengthy test and a hefty fee.
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Old 07-22-2005, 11:19 PM   #25
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And they have to become US citizens before they get to work here, meaning a lengthy test and a hefty fee.
i hope you mean *legal Immigrants* instead of US citizens
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Old 07-23-2005, 01:11 AM   #26
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Is that what they're still labeled?
I thought they were Naturalized US citizens.

Huh, maybe I just don't get it...
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Old 07-23-2005, 03:38 AM   #27
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I think Rono means legal residents, those who can legally live in the US who do not have citizenzhip status.
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Old 07-25-2005, 08:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Surely it has to be regarded as a penalty - it would mean that the child of an illegal immigrant couldn't qualify for a lower-rate of tuition despite the fact that their place of residence would otherwise qualify them for the lower-rate. In addition, denying access to student loans or grants is certainly a penalty.
Only if you deem lower rates, loans or grants as guaranteed rights.
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Old 07-25-2005, 09:02 AM   #29
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Only if you deem lower rates, loans or grants as guaranteed rights.
Lower rates of tuition as well as access to loans and grants would be rights guaranteed to residents of the state in question, correct?
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:50 AM   #30
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Lower rates are given to resident citizens. I'm not sure that creates a "right" to lower rates.
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