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Old 10-04-2007, 05:13 PM   #121
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I'm not opposed to reforming the way third world workers are treated. But I don't think that having every one of them move to America is the answer.


but here's the connection: if you improve the way they are treated, and improve the opportunities that are available to them in their own countires, then they won't want to move to America.

poor, uneducated people move here for economic reasons. my family did 90-ish years ago for exactly these same reasons. always have, always will. had Ireland not been miserable and had Sweden not been in an economic depression around 1910 or so, they would never have come.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:28 PM   #122
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But I don't think that having every one of them move to America is the answer.
Again, again, again, who asked for this?
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:59 PM   #123
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Again, again, again, who asked for this?
Anyone who doesn't support securing the border.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:00 PM   #124
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Anyone who doesn't support securing the border.

can you support securing the border while at the same time allowing those already here to stay here and have a path towards citizenship, work to improve conditions in the countries from where so many illegals come from, and no deny those that are here health care and education?

i think it's possible.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:00 PM   #125
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Originally posted by Irvine511




but here's the connection: if you improve the way they are treated, and improve the opportunities that are available to them in their own countires, then they won't want to move to America.

This I absolutely agree with. But how do you plan to accomplish this?
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:05 PM   #126
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Anyone who doesn't support securing the border.
How do you manage to think like this and still expect an intelligent conversation?
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:06 PM   #127
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Okay, let's compromise...will you accept 10 million? 5 million? Wouldn't you agree that even ONE million would pose a problem?
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/06...tml?eref=yahoo

Here are some of the numbers people here are asking for, from a decent source. Google it and you would probably find higher estimates elsewhere.

The chart is through 2005, with 11.1 million in that year.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:06 PM   #128
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This I absolutely agree with. But how do you plan to accomplish this?


there have been many great suggestions in this thread already.

it's true, though, it's much more complicated than cries of "BUILD A FENCE! KICK THEM OUT OF SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS!"
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:08 PM   #129
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I know the numbers. And no I don't see the problem. I honestly think this country should work harder in making the immigration process more acceptable so people didn't have to risk their lives and work as slave labor. But enjoy your cheap produce...
Wait. Let me understand something. The reason so many Mexicans are coming here is because they can get a job "under the table" - meaning a buck or two an hour.

If they become 'legalized' - then they will need to be paid minimum wage. If they are paid minimum wage - then they become too expensive to hire.

If cheap Mexican labor is as essential to the US economy as you claim - then you are 1) advocating slave (or very, very cheap) labor and 2) using the same argument the South made leading up to the Civil War.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:09 PM   #130
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Anyone who doesn't support securing the border.


My point entirely is that you have tried to make it very simple. You said earlier that our plan should be to deport the illegal immigrants and not allow anymore in.

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What about simply stopping them from being here at all?
That's not a plan.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:10 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



can you support securing the border while at the same time allowing those already here to stay here and have a path towards citizenship, work to improve conditions in the countries from where so many illegals come from, and no deny those that are here health care and education?

i think it's possible.
Exactly! That's the general gist of the argument I originally made to sean's question. I'm just not sure we've (any one posting in this thread on either side) been given a solid answer yet.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:12 PM   #132
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Originally posted by Irvine511



can you support securing the border while at the same time allowing those already here to stay here and have a path towards citizenship, work to improve conditions in the countries from where so many illegals come from, and no deny those that are here health care and education?

i think it's possible.
I think I could support these efforts if we were really serious about securing the border first.

I won't support any path to citizenship until the flood is stopped. After that - then we can deal with those already here in the most humane, fair way possible.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:52 PM   #133
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I think I could support these efforts if we were really serious about securing the border first.


how do you propose securing the border? (and are we going to keep the Cuban double standard?)
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:05 PM   #134
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Originally posted by AEON


Anyone who doesn't support securing the border.
Do you really think everyone in the world wants to come here?
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:05 PM   #135
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Anyone who doesn't support securing the border.
how does that even make sense?
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