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Old 10-03-2007, 08:56 PM   #91
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Originally posted by AEON


Okay, let's compromise...will you accept 10 million? 5 million? Wouldn't you agree that even ONE million would pose a problem?
But where are you getting the numbers?
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:30 PM   #92
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Originally posted by AEON


Okay, let's compromise...will you accept 10 million? 5 million? Wouldn't you agree that even ONE million would pose a problem?
I know the numbers. And no I don't see the problem. I honestly think this country should work harder in making the immigration process more acceptable so people didn't have to risk their lives and work as slave labor. But enjoy your cheap produce...
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:04 PM   #93
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Who here among our "leftist" posters wants to just open up the borders and let everybody come on over?

Who here among our "leftist" posters feels that we should NOT try to secure our borders?

(I just want to get rid of, once and for all, one of the more specious arguments being floated about this thread).
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:14 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
Who here among our "leftist" posters wants to just open up the borders and let everybody come on over?

Who here among our "leftist" posters feels that we should NOT try to secure our borders?

(I just want to get rid of, once and for all, one of the more specious arguments being floated about this thread).
I don't really care if ours are totally open, but I would love having a few other countries open their borders to all comers. That way I could go there.
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:55 PM   #95
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But enjoy your cheap produce...
I would prefer to pay more for lettuce than have an open border.
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:50 PM   #96
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Originally posted by AnnRKeyintheUSA


And many don't. Most states require proof of US citizenship for a license since the Patriot act.

Quote:
Spitzer stands by immigrant driver's license plan

BY JAMES T.
October 2, 2007

ALBANY - Defending his plan to give driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants, Gov. Eliot Spitzer accused Republican critics yesterday of using "extremist rhetoric" to capitalize on still raw emotions surrounding the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Spitzer, a Democrat, vowed to push forward with allowing license applicants to substitute a valid foreign passport and other records for the required Social Security card. Such documents are difficult to forge and will be scrutinized in a process taking up to six weeks, he said.

The policy change, unveiled 11 days ago, has sparked a fierce debate statewide.

GOP leaders have said the governor is helping terrorists to board airplanes and appealing to Democrat-friendly immigrants to sway elections. But immigrant groups and unions have praised Spitzer for recognizing the crucial role undocumented workers play in the economy.

"No amount of fear-mongering and extremist rhetoric will prevent us from doing what is morally and practically correct," Spitzer said in Manhattan. "None of their claims have any merit."
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:58 PM   #97
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GOP leaders have said the governor is helping terrorists
It's just so pathetic when they do this. It dilutes the real threat.

And the voters still fall for it.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:05 AM   #98
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Spitzer is a very good politician. He's somebody to keep an eye on in the next 5-10 years. Ran a pretty flawless campaign, and doesn't speak in soundbytes. Since most of our US channels are from NY state, I've seen a lot of him, and generally liked his message and tone.
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:30 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I would prefer to pay more for lettuce than have an open border.
Trust me, the GOP wouldn't have an economic leg to stand on if they truly got rid of immigrant workers.

You don't know the numbers, you don't have a clue.

Your military uniforms were sewn by illegal immigrants...
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:07 AM   #100
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Could someone clarify: We're saying that we should give driver's licenses to undocumented workers because right now they know that if they go in to take a driver's test, the DMV will just call INS and they'll be deported? So they choose instead to not get licenses at all? And issuing the driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants without their having to fear reprisal would in the end make our roads safer? Is that the argument?

Also, so far we've only got one "liberal" poster who is okay with an open border. Anyone else?
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:57 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
Could someone clarify: We're saying that we should give driver's licenses to undocumented workers because right now they know that if they go in to take a driver's test, the DMV will just call INS and they'll be deported? So they choose instead to not get licenses at all? And issuing the driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants without their having to fear reprisal would in the end make our roads safer? Is that the argument?
Well, the first part is pretty much what's happening here in California. I don't know the statistics, but the second part seems like how it is used to be before Americans were ruled by fear and prejudice.



Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

Also, so far we've only got one "liberal" poster who is okay with an open border. Anyone else?
I don't know how I feel about this. But I do think it's inhumane to deny people education and health care for any reason.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:03 AM   #102
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Originally posted by martha


I don't know how I feel about this. But I do think it's inhumane to deny people education and health care for any reason.
Yes, but it's been suggested in this thread that "liberals" don't care about border security or feel that we should have a policy of a completely open border.

Is that how you feel?
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:45 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


Yes, but it's been suggested in this thread that "liberals" don't care about border security or feel that we should have a policy of a completely open border.

Is that how you feel?
I just wanted to jump back in and respond here too. First, I agree with Martha. There is not a human being on this planet that doesn't deserve health care and education, especially health care, which is a necessity. Any view other than that, I can only see as barbaric and inhumane. That being said, as a liberal poster, I can say that I do not agree to a completely open border. That would be ludicrous. That would allow anyone to just waltz on over the border, regardless of what their intentions are in the U.S., regardless of any criminal history on their part, and would also make it much easier for those with terrorist intentions to gain access to this country. I don't think anyone would argue that fear of terrorism is the main reason given for the need to beef up border security. Yet, the majority of people that come here, legally or not, do so only for a better life. They want, what should be a human, not just an American, right, to have an education, to provide for their families, etc. I do not want a freely open border for the reasons stated above. However, I feel we need a total immigration reform in this country. I'll admit I don't really have a solution to the problem, but I think it's something Congress really needs to focus on in the next decade or so. I think the most basic thing that I would like to see is, that when illegal immigrants are caught, they are given a choice to either stay here, work, receive health care and education opportunities, and also to become a citizen; or if they choose not to accept the first option, they would be deported back to their own country. Those who chose the option to stay would be monitored throughout the process of becoming a citizen and possibly after if anything in their background looks suspect. (Of course, on this President's watch, anyone who doesn't have a Southern accent and white skin is "suspect" ) That solution is obviously not thought-out extremely well and not knowing the full extent of the problem, I don't think any of us could offer anything that would radically change the problem of immigration in this country.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:09 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


Yes, but it's been suggested in this thread that "liberals" don't care about border security or feel that we should have a policy of a completely open border.

Is that how you feel?

Quote:
Originally posted by martha
I don't know how I feel about this.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:15 AM   #105
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


I just wanted to jump back in and respond here too. First, I agree with Martha. There is not a human being on this planet that doesn't deserve health care and education, especially health care, which is a necessity. Any view other than that, I can only see as barbaric and inhumane.
Should this apply to every soul in the world? If so, is it really America's responsibilitiy to relocate everyone here so we can give them free healthcare and education?

I think most people agree that everyone should have healthcare and education (the term 'free' is misleading...someone is going to pay).
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