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Old 10-02-2007, 06:56 PM   #46
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You forgot about addressing everyone's point.
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:56 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


You forgot about the chupacabra...
chupacabra


dude, come on.
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:56 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Dang - that's a tough stance. I wouldn't have gone that far.
So you do have limits, good to know...
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:59 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Yeah...those crazy obstacles like free health care and a free education...why they even try is beyond me.
and what do Cubans get
that sneak into the country?
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:03 PM   #50
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and what do Cubans get
that sneak into the country?


the opportunity to vote for surname BUSH at the state and national level.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:06 PM   #51
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Originally posted by martha



Take off your own racist glasses and open your eyes.
There it is - the ol' race card. I've been waiting for it! If you support a secure border you are a racist...got to love the logic.

That being said, I do wonder how this is a racist statement: "Anyone who wants the American dream should have the right to come here by golly!"
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:08 PM   #52
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There it is - the ol' race card. I've been waiting for it! If you support a secure border you are a racist...got to love the logic.
How bout your generalization about Mexicans?
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


There it is - the ol' race card. I've been waiting for it! If you support a secure border you are a racist...got to love the logic.

That being said, I do wonder how this is a racist statement: "Anyone who wants the American dream should have the right to come here by golly!"


firstly, we know you didn't mean that statement, it was intended as an ironic point.

however, while i love legal immigration and have nothing but admiration for the people who have managed to come to this country and work and be productive (which they are in my heavily Salvadorean neighborhood), i also think it's entirely fair to expect the government to enforce our laws, which would include regulating immigration. but we need to acknowledge the people that are here and what they add -- and not get hung up over the whole Spanish language thing.

and deep brings up a very, very important double standard about Cubans. would that Haitians were treated so well.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:15 PM   #54
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Originally posted by Irvine511

i also think it's entirely fair to expect the government to enforce our laws, which would include regulating immigration.
I agree. I don't see how that would make you or I a racist.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:19 PM   #55
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I agree. I don't see how that would make you or I a racist.
That doesn't, but go back and reread you first post in this thread. Oh, and all the others that address Mexican illegal immigration.

Yes, it is a racial issue for many. It's best to admit it when it is, so people can at least know where you stand and can hope to maintain even a shread of respect for you and your statements.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
There it is - the ol' race card. I've been waiting for it! If you support a secure border you are a racist...got to love the logic.
You're not a racist if you support secure borders. But you sure are a racist, if you believe the nonsense that is the first post of this thread.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:25 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Yeah...those crazy obstacles like free health care and a free education...why they even try is beyond me.
But even American citizens don't get free health care or free (higher) education. Maybe that means Americans should be illegally entering Canada.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


You're not a racist if you support secure borders. But you sure are a racist, if you believe the nonsense that is the first post of this thread.
Also, if you refer to other people as "aliens".
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:47 PM   #59
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Something else people might find interesting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_nothing_party

Quote:
The Know Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to American values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. Mainly active from 1854–56, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. There were few prominent leaders, and the largely middle-class and Protestant membership fragmented over the issue of slavery, most often joining the Republican Party by the time of the 1860 presidential election.

The movement originated in New York in 1843 as the American Republican Party. It spread to other states as the Native American Party and became a national party in 1845. In 1855 it renamed itself the American Party. The origin of the "Know Nothing" term was in the semi-secret organization of the party. When a member was asked about its activities, he was supposed to reply, "I know nothing."

The immigration of large numbers of Irish and German Catholics to the U.S. in the 1830–60 period made religious differences between Catholics and Protestants a political issue. The tensions reflected European battles between Catholics and Protestants, but were much less intense. Violence occasionally erupted over elections.

Although Catholics asserted they were politically independent of priests, Protestants alleged that Pope Pius IX had put down the failed liberal Revolutions of 1848 and was an opponent of liberty, democracy and Protestantism. These concerns encouraged conspiracy theories regarding the Pope's purported plans to subjugate the United States through a continuing influx of Catholics controlled by Irish bishops obedient to and personally selected by the Pope. In 1849, an oath-bound secret society, The Order of the Star Spangled Banner, was created by Charles Allen in New York City. It became the nucleus of some units of the American Party.

Fear of Catholic immigration led to a dissatisfaction with the Democratic party, whose prominent membership included many Irish-American Catholics. Activists formed secret groups, coordinating their votes and throwing their weight behind candidates sympathetic to their cause. When asked about these secret organizations, members were to reply "I know nothing," which led to their popularly being called Know Nothings. This movement won elections in major cities from Chicago to Boston in 1855, and carried the Massachusetts legislature and governorship.

...

n 1854, members of the American Party allegedly stole and destroyed the block of granite contributed by Pope Pius IX for the Washington Monument. They also took over the monument's building society and controlled it for four years. What little progress occurred in their tenure had to be undone and remade. For the full story, see Washington Monument: History.

In California in 1854 Sam Roberts founded a Know-Nothing chapter in San Francisco. The group was formed in opposition to Chinese and Chilean immigrants as well as Irish who had come to work in gold mines.

In spring 1855, Levi Boone was elected Mayor of Chicago for the Know Nothings. He barred all immigrants from city jobs. Statewide, however, Republican Abraham Lincoln blocked the party from any successes. Ohio was the only state where the party gained strength in 1855. Their Ohio success seems to have come from winning over immigrants, especially German Lutherans and Scottish Presbyterians who feared Catholicism. In Alabama, the Know Nothings were a mix of former Whigs, malcontented Democrats, and other political outsiders who favored state aid to build more railroads. In the tempestuous 1855 campaign, the Democrats won by convincing state voters that Alabama Know Nothings would not protect slavery from Northern abolitionists.

The party declined rapidly in the North in 1855–56. In the Election of 1856, it was bitterly divided over slavery. One faction supported the ticket of presidential nominee Millard Fillmore and vice-presidential nominee Andrew Jackson Donelson, who won 23% of the popular vote and Maryland's 8 electoral votes. Fillmore did not win enough votes in Pennsylvania to block Democrat James Buchanan from the White House. Most of the anti-slavery members of the American Party joined the Republican Party after the controversial Dred Scott ruling occurred. The pro-slavery wing of the American Party remained strong on the local and state levels in a few southern states, but by the Election of 1860, they were no longer a serious national political movement.

Some historians argue that in the South the Know Nothings were fundamentally different from their northern counterparts, and were motivated less by nativism or anti-Catholicism than by conservative Unionism (preserving the Union of states rather than labor unions); southern Know Nothings were mostly old Whigs who were worried about both the pro-slavery extremism of the Democrats and the emergence of the anti-slavery Republican party in the North. In Louisiana and Maryland, the Know-Nothings enlisted Catholics. Historian Michael F. Holt, however, argues, "Know Nothingism originally grew in the South for the same reasons it spread in the North — nativism, anti-Catholicism, and animosity toward unresponsive politicos — not because of conservative Unionism." He quotes ex-Governor William B. Campbell of Tennessee, who wrote in January 1855, "I have been astonished at the widespread feeling in favor of their principles — to wit, Native Americanism and anti-Catholicism — it takes everywhere."
FYI, prior to 1870, the Democratic Party was "conservative," whereas the Republican Party was "liberal." Due to circumstances of politics, Northern conservative Democrats flooded the Republican Party, while Northern liberal Republicans retreated into the void left behind in the Democratic Party. That left conservative Southern Democrats behind, who have gradually joined the Republican Party only in the last 40 years or so. "Liberal Southern Republicans," for all intents and purposes, never existed.

My point, however, is that these hysterical fears about immigrants are generally very unfounded. As a matter of security, however, I'm interested in our borders being more secured; and, on the flip side, I'm hoping that sealed borders will force the Mexican government to entertain serious economic and political reforms that are long overdue. Unfortunately, they seem perfectly contented with their horrendously corrupt status quo, as long as potential emigration to the U.S. is a viable option. For the sake of Mexico, as a nation, I'd like to see them forced to confront their problems.

That doesn't mean, however, that unfounded populist quasi-racist anti-immigrant hysteria is warranted.
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:10 PM   #60
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I'm not sure what the original point is? Is it that you think illegal immigrants are lazy because they only knock off 12 people a day, while legal American citizens are on a far better clip of 44 a day?
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