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Old 10-06-2007, 12:12 AM   #196
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
No problem with any of that. Practical, maybe doable.
I'm basically in agreement with these - with the understanding the border is closed first. To me, that is a necessary first step.

Now - why can't we get Congress and President to actually do these things?
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:17 AM   #197
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Why would you need to close the border if there are no longer any reasons to go to, or stay in America?
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:34 AM   #198
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Originally posted by AEON


I'm basically in agreement with these - with the understanding the border is closed first. To me, that is a necessary first step.

Now - why can't we get Congress and President to actually do these things?
Do you realize the effects of building a wall? as you propose...
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:52 AM   #199
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Jobs for American workers and proof that you can beat the Chinese?
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:02 AM   #200
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Care to clarify?
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:05 AM   #201
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Do you realize the effects of building a wall? as you propose...
The environmental consequences alone...
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:15 AM   #202
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Care to clarify?
You wouldn't be employing labour that wasn't legally here (of course) and in terms of building structures for defending the territorial and ethnic integrity of a nation if it could be done by various dynasties in China why not in the USA?
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:29 AM   #203
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Gotcha...






The defending "ethnic integrity" is very interesting, I do think it's part of the issue, though no one would admit to this.

Anyone who I've had this discussion with in person or at great lengths online has at least once in anger slipped and let a racial slur pass...
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:57 AM   #204
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Your country has the situation where it actually has large numbers of people entering, Australia however has no land borders with other countries and the government has been able to be match the pitch equally.
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:45 AM   #205
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totally - Australia is heading down the "pick and choose" track of yesteryear with this new "survey" that tests people's knowledge - i understand a little understanding but when people who are australian born don't know they answer - how unfair to the immigrants?

Although i'm sure illegal immigrants cause problems - if they were all rounded up and kicked out, America would crumble and grind to a halt.
I think you're increasing violent society is not "racial" bound and is something that needs a lot of thought on...
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Old 10-06-2007, 07:19 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Why would you need to close the border if there are no longer any reasons to go to, or stay in America?
I think Bush understood that some years back and decided it was easier to run down the economy instead of waiting for an economic rise of Central America.

I can agree with Bluer White's proposal very much, though I'm uncomfortable with any wall or fence between two countries.
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Old 10-06-2007, 10:48 AM   #207
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Originally posted by AEON


I'm basically in agreement with these - with the understanding the border is closed first. To me, that is a necessary first step.

Now - why can't we get Congress and President to actually do these things?

Thank you. I'd really like to prove Bluer White wrong, and show that we can have an intelligent discussion on these issues rather than the usual "shell game."

So, in that spirit, what do you mean when say that closing the border is the first step? Are you talking about stopping ALL immigration between the U.S. and Mexico? Because halting legal immigration certainly wouldn't do anything to stem the tide of illegal immigration.

Or are you referring to building a wall? I think the effectiveness and appropriateness of such a measure can be debated without returning to the "you want an open border" nonsense.

And another question? Why do YOU think we can't get Congress and the President to do actually do these things?

I tend to think to think this debate is so heightened with emotion and aspersions (sometimes well founded, sometimes not) about the "true agenda" of the opposing side. I don't know that the answers are easy but I have a feeling people tend to oppose some of the ideas on immigration reform not on the merits of the ideas but on assumptions about the "real motives" and attitudes of those promoting the various reforms.
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Old 10-06-2007, 10:55 AM   #208
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Originally posted by martha


The environmental consequences alone...
The environment along many parts of the border is thrashed from the immigrants. I think the wall or fence would probably help.
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Old 10-06-2007, 11:02 AM   #209
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega




I can agree with Bluer White's proposal very much, though I'm uncomfortable with any wall or fence between two countries.
How else would you secure it? I think having some National Guard and extra BP can only do so much.
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Old 10-06-2007, 11:14 AM   #210
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So to clarify, then, that's what this debate is really about then?

Should we build a wall or not?

I don't know, personally. I'd want to know more about the issues. I do think I would disagree with anyone who says that building a wall is some sort of inherent racist statement. I don't think it is.

I also tend to think a wall sounds a little impractical and simplistic as a solution though. What modern examples do we have of a wall of this magnitude (I think we're well past the age where something along the lines of the Great Wall of China would be effective)? Are there more effective and less expensive ways to curb illegal immigration or is the wall really the ONLY way and will it really work?

(And aren't there already walls or "fences" at certain points along the border already?)
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