If you had the chance, would you cure all disease? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-12-2001, 02:49 PM   #31
The Fly
 
Hans Moleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Springfield, VD
Posts: 94
Local Time: 12:16 AM
Well, I must correct something here, at least in what I think I know about this.

The One-Child Rule is not as clean as this. In rural areas, the law is generally that you are allowed two, if the first is a girl, but, even then, it is not often strictly enforced, except during periodic crackdowns, where there are often forced sterilizations of those who are known to have their alloted child. Chinese tradition is harder to break in rural areas. Infanticide isn't incredibly common, but abandonment of female children is, and the orphanages are packed full of them in China.

~melon

------------------
"Oh no...my brains."
__________________

__________________
Hans Moleman is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 04:07 PM   #32
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 04:16 AM
Hans Moleman;

I'm not saying their system is completely clean at all; what system doesn't have its faults, its errors, its occasional cold-bloodedness? Human nature always ruins things in some way or another. However, it IS a system and I don't think you can discredit its validity and effectiveness; China IS trying, and they are the only ones who are trying hard enough in my opinion.

Ant.
__________________

__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 08:21 PM   #33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
Also, I have always been one to support China in most of its policies. For instance, I hate it when Amnesty International pokes its nose into China's business and criticises it for executing too many people. China knows how to solve its own problems, and, as long as it doesn't harm anyone, its fine by me (even though I do NOT support the death penalty).
"as long as it doesn't harm anyone" is key here, right?
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 09:49 PM   #34
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama:
"as long as it doesn't harm anyone" is key here, right?
Yes. For instance, I don't approve of the Chinese invasion of Tibet and the consequent expulsion of the Dalai Lama. However, there has always been in my opinion, a cold shoulder and judgemental sentiment from the West (including the US) when it came to China, especially due to its Communism which is a highly dubious reason (I for one, don't think Communism is a bad idea at all. Idealistic, yes, misguided - maybe, but it is not the evil of the world as so many people are ready to point out, anyway I'm a Socialist). I have a lot of respect for China, and I think its political structure is something that is to be desired by other countries (Britain, for one) as in - it actually has a political spine.

I am sick of seeing countries bow down to the ideals of Amnesty International (which, if you haven't noticed by now, is an organisation I really despise), its good to see a country telling Amnesty International where they can shove their ideals (pardon the expression). Also, again, China is the only country who is actually doing anything about the problem with over-population.

Ant.
__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 11:01 PM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 10:16 PM
I don't agree with every campaign that Amnesty International takes on, but I am opposed to governments that incarcerate, torture or kill citizens for political or religious reasons. I know personally of a family from here in Burmingham who was incarcerated in China due to religious materials they had (Falun Gong). And as for their treatment of political dissidents, we need only to look back at the Tianenmen Square debacle of the late 80s. Those are examples of China going too far, if you ask me.

What are some other nations whose business you think AI needs to butt out of?

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 11:12 PM   #36
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 04:16 AM
U2Bama;

As always, you speak with calm reason and balanced wisdom, a quality I will never posses, especially when speaking of AI.
My main hatred of AI comes from its involvement with the Pinochet case, when he could have been extradited to the hands of Spain, however, AI spoke against it and warned all the parties concerned of HIS rights as a human being. This comes as no surprise, as AI aims to uphold all the articles of the Convention of Human Rights, another thing I THOROUGHLY disagree with.

Now, I have done a lot of work on Amnesty INternational, this stems back to monumental research I did for a project back in Catholic School, and basically, I realised that AI was there to uphold EVERYONE'S rights, including those who (in my eyes) clearly do not deserve them and endanger other people. Thanks to AI, they helped make Pinochet walk free, they made a mockery of justice and spat in the face of Spain who DESERVED to have Pinochet on trial to answer for the countless of deaths of Spaniards in his country during his dictatorship.

In that case, Amnesty International proves its arrogancy and lunacy; providing rights for those who trample on everybody else's.

As for China going too far, I regard its treatment of political dissidents as justified, though no one should be tortured for religious reasons. It is different when it comes to political activism, I believe that political activism is a very dangerous thing in the hands of certain individuals; the Chinese dealing with certain dissidents, in their eyes, would be like Germany dealing with the Nationalist PArty these days.

Ultimately, Amnesty International are a bunch of hypocrites, they accuse China of barbarism regarding its views on the death penalty, but never mentioning the fact that America has plenty of executions every year. I don't see them making a big deal out of that. Amnesty International has a big mouth and a self-righteous attitude to everything. To hell with that.

Ant.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama:
I don't agree with every campaign that Amnesty International takes on, but I am opposed to governments that incarcerate, torture or kill citizens for political or religious reasons. I know personally of a family from here in Burmingham who was incarcerated in China due to religious materials they had (Falun Gong). And as for their treatment of political dissidents, we need only to look back at the Tianenmen Square debacle of the late 80s. Those are examples of China going too far, if you ask me.

What are some other nations whose business you think AI needs to butt out of?

~U2Alabama
__________________
Anthony is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 11:24 PM   #37
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 997
Local Time: 04:16 AM
I thought we were talking about diseases here.
__________________
DebbieSG is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 11:31 PM   #38
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 10:16 PM
Ant:

Okay, I agree, in part, with your general view on AI's defense of some of the most ruthless criminals and dictators once those criminals/dictators are out of power. I'm sure they will claim it is just a matter of being consistent, but I recall in the 1980s when AI campaigned AGAINST the atrocities committed by Pinochet's regime (that and Sting's "They Dance Alone - Gueca Solo" are how I became so aware of it at the age of 14), yet more recently, as you pointed out, they didn't want him to face the accusers who had the most evidence against him! The same goes for today; a few months ago, they were campaigning against the Taliban, now they speak for them, to an extent.

But being an absolute free speech advocate, I have to dissent from your view on political activism for "certain individuals," but I can see where you are coming from (like the American Civil Liberties Union defending the KKK here). I guess I trust public opinion to the extent that such radicals on either extreme will not be a threat via political speech alone.

And FYI, AI DOES campaign against the U.S.'s death penalty; in fact, I think they made a plea on behalf of Timothy McVeigh a few months ago. But keep in mind that "murder" is not the only crime for which China administers the death penalty, whereas it is the only crime for which the U.S. has done so, recently.

P.S. So far, you have seemed to approach this thread with "calm reason and balanced wisdom," which you seem to do in all of your posts. I do not always agree with what you have to say, but you usually say it well and you back it up. Free speech rules! Thanks.

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 12-12-2001, 11:41 PM   #39
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 10:16 PM
And that is a good point you made, DebbieSG.
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 12-13-2001, 02:46 AM   #40
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama:
And that is a good point you made, DebbieSG.
Yes, it is.

43 % more aidspatients in Amsterdam. Well, maybe it is a little hard to say i will not want to cure people who fuck around. But getting a infection here in this western world is for 90% your own fault.


Now i think about it, i could make a lot of money if i had a cure, i could get a patent on it.

__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 12-13-2001, 06:19 AM   #41
Refugee
 
Klodomir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,198
Local Time: 05:16 AM
You'd probably win a Nobel prize as well. But would you invite all of us to attend? What a party/brawl it would be!
__________________
Klodomir is offline  
Old 12-13-2001, 08:52 AM   #42
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MD
Posts: 7,572
Local Time: 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rono:
Yes, it is.

43 % more aidspatients in Amsterdam. Well, maybe it is a little hard to say i will not want to cure people who fuck around. But getting a infection here in this western world is for 90% your own fault.

Now i think about it, i could make a lot of money if i had a cure, i could get a patent on it.

I think you'd be lynched if you tried to patent a cure for AIDS.
__________________
speedracer is offline  
Old 12-14-2001, 01:43 AM   #43
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:16 PM
Rono, it only takes one careless act to contract the HIV virus. Not 'sleeping around'. What you say about withholding the chance to be cured sounds like punishment. And how can one man be allowed to decide whether another man/woman lives or dies because of their mistakes?
__________________
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 12-14-2001, 04:52 AM   #44
Refugee
 
Klodomir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,198
Local Time: 05:16 AM
Even worse: what about the man who cheats on his wife, contracts HIV and then comes home and gives it to her? Brrrr...
__________________
Klodomir is offline  
Old 12-14-2001, 09:42 AM   #45
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 555
Local Time: 04:16 AM
I'll jump in there right alongside MatthewPage. My point being though, you've got to look beyond the short term. Thinking about social services and Lilly's burden on her generation misses the point that society would change to deal with the situation. 'My mum would lose her job....' I'm sorry but there's a bigger picture.
__________________

__________________
Tizer is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com