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View Poll Results: If the election were held today, who would you vote for?
Bush 11 20.00%
Kerry 28 50.91%
Nader 3 5.45%
other 1 1.82%
not voting because I don't approve of the choices 4 7.27%
not voting because I am underage or not a US citizen 8 14.55%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

FW's right, come on Bushies, show yerselfs.

*raises hand*
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Old 05-28-2004, 06:12 AM   #32
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While I believe Nader is the best man for the job, I'd vote for Kerry.
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Old 05-28-2004, 08:17 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I would never tell other people how to vote or that they should vote. There is something very presumptuous about that.

I don't believe in these guilt/fear tactics of "you must vote at all costs." I would never vote for someone/something I did not believe in and I learned that the hard way. Nobody can convince me otherwise. Voting just for the sake of voting seems misguided to me if you haven't found a party or a candidate you can truly support. For example, if you support Nader, but he is not on your ballot, why should you compromise and vote for the Dems or the next best thing if you don't believe in them? That's ridiculous, IMO.


I haven't decided whether or not I'll be voting this year.
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Old 05-28-2004, 08:36 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

I don't believe in these guilt/fear tactics of "you must vote at all costs." I would never vote for someone/something I did not believe in and I learned that the hard way. Nobody can convince me otherwise. Voting just for the sake of voting seems misguided to me if you haven't found a party or a candidate you can truly support.
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Old 05-28-2004, 08:39 AM   #35
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Bush, without a doubt. My family are HUGE Republicans

How could any of you stand to listen to Kerry's voice for 4 years. Plus, he never smiles. Probably the most boring person ever.

"I actually did vote for the 87 billion before I voted against it"
There are many more instances such as this.
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Old 05-28-2004, 08:48 AM   #36
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Yes, I'd rather someone vote for Bush than not at all. If there really are more folks in the US who support him than not, I'd accept that. (I'll move to Canada, but I'll accept it. )

Antiram, I hear you, I do. But in my country at least, there is so much apathy! I don't feel like we have such a dire situation, such as the one you were in, which would warrent a conscious vote boycott. I hear, "You're never going to change it, so why bother?" "Politicians are all corrupt, so why bother?" Well, you know what? That's not going to change unless we get involved! Part of that is voting. If you support a specific candidate, by all means, write him in. That's a great solution to me--it's participating. But I also believe that voting is just the beginning! We have to be informed, get info from multiple sources, be in contact with our reps through letters and phone calls. We have to organize! A real democracy will not work without this. I get very frustrated with folks who complain and complain about the Way It Is, and then I find out they haven't get bothered to get to the polls!

Just MHO, of course.

SD
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:53 AM   #37
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The problem I'm having is that I'm not happy with the way things are, but a positive change does not appear possible at this time. I don't see the alternatives as a solution, or even an improvement. I'm not saying I won't vote, like Seabiscuit, but I agree with meegannie, I'm not sure I will. I am going to wait and see what happens, and if anyone can win me over. If not I could always write in Bono (I know, he's not eligible, not a US citizen)

America needs to get beyond the two party system if anything is ever really going to change. I think this may happen in time, even if it's in the form of electing 'cool' or 'joke' people like Jesse Ventura and Arnold. We need someone not imbedded in the system. I am among those who believe all politicians are corrupt. Of course they are, or they would not be in the positions they are. An honest man cannot get ahead in this country. They're all rich, too. A poor man or an ordinary citizen could never have the money or the clout to get elected.
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:14 AM   #38
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A question for you Kerry supporters, could you please explain what is supposed to be so great about him, and what's so much better than Bush? He hasn't even said he'd stop or scale down the war. I heard him on TV last night talking about America's commitment and following through, sounded like Bush to me. Also why do you hate Bush, is it only the war?
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:43 AM   #39
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I would never tell someone from another country that they should be voting or whatever. It's none of my damn business. By the same token, people *died* in my home town for the right to vote. For the inside scoop of Alabama, and Southern, political tensions, read Diane McWhorter's "Carry Me Home". That will tell you more about the U.S. Southern voter than I'll ever know.
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Old 05-28-2004, 02:26 PM   #40
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All throughout history, people died for the right to vote.

It is not participation that is at issue. As one bumper sticker said "If you want me to vote, give me candidates."

The problem is that we end up voting for the lesser of two evils, and in the end of the day absolutely nothing will change. There is no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in America in the way they operate. They both support the top 1% who are living the American dream while the bottom 99% lives out the American nightmare. And there is an apathy not at the voting polls, but among the middle class who doesn't seem to realize that without a revolution, they will get nowhere, while the top gets further and further. So they are happy to maintain the status quo so long as they can have their Ford and their house in the suburbs, alternately voting for one of two parties who essentially believes in the same thing. As a foreigner, I heard a Kerry speech the other day, I heard a Bush speech and for the love of God, how can you even tell they are not members of the same party?

I agree with U2Kitten about positive change not necessarily being a viable solution at this point. A revolution comes from within and so long as your middle class is satisfied with the scraps that come their way, without comprehensive health care, and with carrying the corporate fat cats, then you will never effect any sort of change regardless of whom you are voting for. This is because you are voting for that top 1% who has no idea what it is like to live in a 2 bedroom trailer.

"We the people" were a few dozen rich, white men. And they still are today.
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Old 05-28-2004, 02:52 PM   #41
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While I agree with a lot of what you said, I cannot let this one go by.

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
The problem is that we end up voting for the lesser of two evils, and in the end of the day absolutely nothing will change. There is no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in America in the way they operate.
So you're saying that the Clinton and Bush presidencies were essentially the same? And that things wouldn't be different if Gore were president instead of Bush? It's not that I don't agree that both parties are on the right of the global political spectrum. They certainly are. But I can't stand it when people say that both parties are the same, so why vote anyway. If the current administration has shown Americans anything it's shown that who you vote for does matter.
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Old 05-28-2004, 04:14 PM   #42
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Clinton was a fine Republican president.

Zinn actually wrote up several wonderful chapters comparing the presidencies of Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and frankly when you look at what they did in terms of budgets, judges appointed, social programs, military spending, foreign policy, it's hard to believe they were members of different parties. It's just that Republicans are in your face more, so they come across as inherently "evil" when looked at from a liberal point of view. The Dems are just hiding behind a whole lot of fakery, but they're doing nothing for the bottom 99%.

No, I don't know if the presidencies would have been the same. But it is hard to say because 9/11 would have forced anyone's hand, left or right. Everything changed then, and there is no way you can stipulate that Gore, or Nader or anyone else would have been radically different in light of what happened to the country on that day. Let's be frank, I don't like Bush at all, but he's not the devil incarnate. He's in many ways a man of his time. Yes, Iraq was likely pre-planned, but like I said, 9/11 wasn't and there is no telling where people would stand since they were not in the White House at that time when patriotic fervor was high, etc.
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Old 05-28-2004, 04:15 PM   #43
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I agree, That Guy. "Give" me candidates? They don't just appear. Not that you think they do. But really, if someone wants good candidates, and is boycotting the vote because of that, I'd want to know what he or she is doing to support his or her candidate of choice next time. That's the thing about democracy--it demands participation beyond just pulling a lever.
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Old 05-28-2004, 04:21 PM   #44
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I'd hold my nose and vote for Kerry!
Anyone, anything, is better than another 4 years of Dubya.
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Old 05-28-2004, 04:21 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Zinn actually wrote up several wonderful chapters comparing the presidencies of Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and frankly when you look at what they did in terms of budgets, judges appointed, social programs, military spending, foreign policy, it's hard to believe they were members of different parties. It's just that Republicans are in your face more, so they come across as inherently "evil" when looked at from a liberal point of view. The Dems are just hiding behind a whole lot of fakery, but they're doing nothing for the bottom 99%.
I'd love to read that article if you could point me in the right direction ...?
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