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Old 09-25-2001, 12:51 PM   #16
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i can understand...if you have time...

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Old 09-25-2001, 01:25 PM   #17
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Welcome, Patti Jones. This is a very rough place to be sometimes, but if you've got the stomach for knock-down drag-out fighting and debate, you'll love this place.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 09-25-2001).]
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Old 09-26-2001, 07:12 AM   #18
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What is this disticntion you talk about?
Like the bumper sticker goes, I guess: "if Timothy McVeigh blew up the WTC, would you bomb Michigan?"

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I totally agree we should stop the ones that are funding them. Now, what if these countries that are funding them dont want to stop then what. We yell at them. No. We must us force. They are the problem here. They let these cells start-up anywhere they finance them and feed them. They need to be shut down. And force might be needed. Or at least the threat of force.
Huh? 'These countries' = America

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I dont think this is a reason Bin Laden and his cells hate the Americans. This is an issue that isnt the foremost in there minds. They hate Americans for some twisted reason. Racism or Culture-hate. I dont know there isnt even a word for it, or maybe there is and i dont know it. But this is not because the US is backing Isreal. Well at least from what i have heard. But what i have heard is from the media. And we all know that they are blood thirsty.
bonoman, I wasn't talking specifically about bin Laden and his cells. I was talking about the Middle East in general. At the time of writing this, I wasn't sure myself who were the specific culprits of the terrorists acts of Black Tuesday.
Btw, I forgot to add, there is another reason why the Middle East hates America. For one, Osama bin Laden doesn't want non-Muslims on Arabian soil; he wants the Middle East to become one huge Mecca. A non-Muslim-free zone.

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Oh Thanks for clearing that up. I'll take your advice over the ones that are running the aorld most powerful counrty. OK. I dont think any of us can really tell anyone why they hate AMerica. We can all try but ultimatly we would be grasping. But dont worry i wont be fooled i am much smarter then that.
I think you got carried away with sarcasm here.

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They cant even agree on a place to meet never mind spliting half of the most volitale piece of land in the world. Here you go Isreal and for you Palestine this...Hardly. No offense but i think it is very naive.
I agree that it is naive, but there must be some way to do it. Mind you, during Clinton's time, Barak and Arafat did meet, so you're incorrect on that count. The problem with Bush is that he is totally pro-Israel and anti-Palestine whereas Clinton actually seemed like he could see both points of view.


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Old 09-26-2001, 02:39 PM   #19
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[quote]Originally posted by foray:
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. The problem with Bush is that he is totally pro-Israel and anti-Palestine whereas Clinton actually seemed like he could see both points of view.
foray
Actually, I don't think that's true. Surely you remember a couple months back, Colin Powell condemning Israel's part in the hostilities as well as the Palestinians'? I never heard Clinton do that.
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Old 09-26-2001, 04:22 PM   #20
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You are right, 80sU2isBest, and I was hopeful (prior to the attack) that Colin Powell would have led this Administration towards a more balanced approach in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In fact, I remain somewhat hopeful due to the peace that HAS been achieved in the area since the attack, knowing that Yasser Arafat is wise enough not to strain relations with the U.S. right now.

It is not a conservative-liberal or Republican-Democrat situation, nor is it all Israelis and Palestinians. It has more to do with extreme factions on the Israeli side and on the Palestinian side, both of which have some racist-like beliefs about who "should" be there.

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Old 09-26-2001, 05:22 PM   #21
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[It is not a conservative-liberal or Republican-Democrat situation, nor is it all Israelis and Palestinians. It has more to do with extreme factions on the Israeli side and on the Palestinian side, both of which have some racist-like beliefs about who "should" be there.
~U2Alabama[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly!
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Old 09-27-2001, 02:17 PM   #22
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Well, sorry I've been noticably absent from this forum since Sept 11 - but to be honest I wasn't ready to handle the debate.

foray, I agree with a lot of what you said (not all, but a lot)

Please know that there are a lot of patriotic americans who do not want to go to war. I consider myself patriotic - I love this country, have a flag flying on my house as we speak - but I do not want us to retaliate militarily - I want us to try to bring these folks to justice. And to be honest, I am encouraged by the actions of our government (ok U2Bama and 80sU2 - you can go ahead and pick yourselves up off the floor now) that this is in fact what we are doing - as we haven't bombed anyone yet. I am reading stories about arrests, investigations, meetings with foreign governments.

bin Laden doesn't hate us because of Isreal. He is an evil man who has no tolerance for any views other than his own and who is willing to kill for his ideas. We could totally abandon all support of Ireal tomorrow and it would be no different.

In the paper today was this quote from US Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz as he was leaving private meetings with NATO defense ministers in Belgium: "I think it can't be stressed enough that everybody who's waiting for military action... needs to rethink this thing." He later went on to emphasize nonmilitary options.

I have, several times in the past, expressed my dismay over the Bush Administration's seemingly inward focus. However, he has gotten a speed course in world diplomacy and foreign relations since Sept 11, and his cabinet is doing an admirable job.

Propaganda works both ways - the US has a reputation in the world of being selfish and uncaring, with all of its citizens thought of as "ugly americans". In fact, this country is made up of all types of people - peace activists like me, conservatives, Muslims, Christians, jews, all colors, all creeds, all races that don't fit into a single mold. If we continue to handle this crisis well, the US might have an opportunity to change the world's opinion of it from that of a 900 pound gorilla that must be reckoned with to that of a good neighbor. Which I think, for the most part, we deserve.

Peace to you and thanks for letting me ramble.

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