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Old 04-09-2008, 06:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

Is that real
or the victims choosing?
It's real for some. Not every woman can be "stronger" (and that's such a completely lame word for it, I don't know any good one to use) that fast. I think you're saying that women shouldn't give it that power over them, but shouldn't doesn't equal can.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:06 PM   #17
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Maybe part of the point of the tshirt is to own control over that. You're a target anyway no matter what you wear.
Well not exactly. With serial rapists not everyone's a target, they are pretty specific, and if they are specifically seeking women that are vulnerable and easy to attack, this may be a neon light.

I was also thinking of certain creeps that this may spell out that this girl is wounded to them and they may take advantage of that...


Quote:
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And the predator is responsible no matter what you wear.

Absolutely.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Which example would I rather survive?

A. being locked up in a basement for 6 months and beat daily, for 6 months, but never sexually assaulted

or

B. being sexually assaulted (Raped) for 2 minutes
with no permanent physical damage
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
We have 150,000,000+ females in America.

So 25,000.000+ are victims.

They are all blameless.

Why is there any more shame than there is for a person that was stabbed 5 times with a knife and lives.

A knife penetrating is not as bad?
I don't understand what you're getting at here?
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:36 PM   #19
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The NYT article was blogged over at Salon and this was probably the reader response I most agreed with--although as financeguy said, it's a valid form of expression as far as it goes.
Quote:
As a rape survivor I would never in a million years wear such a t-shirt. My sexual and personal privacy was already violated by the rapist; I'm not going to give complete strangers the right to know about the most intimate details of my life.

I'm not ashamed of being a rape survivor (though I do rather hate the trendiness of the word "survivor"), nor am I unwilling to speak about it in an *appropriate* situation -- including in places where it might serve to educate someone and disabuse them of misinformation about the subject. But announcing it to all and sundry would feel like a gross violation of my personal boundaries. Which, having already been through the experience of rape, are all the more important to me.

Frankly, if my house had been torched by an arsonist or my mother had just been murdered, I wouldn't want those crimes that had touched my life emblazoned across my chest either. My European friends are right: Americans have a weird habit of "over-sharing," handing out intimate details of their lives to casual acquaintances and complete strangers. It's...undignified. And dignity is the very first thing a rapist strips you off.

Furthermore, I shudder to think what kind of comments I'd have to endure on the street if I wore such a thing. As women, we already have to deal with a barrage of unwelcome sexually-tinged remarks from strangers when we walk the streets -- particularly those of us who live in large, crowded cities ("hey baby, do you like to S*** d***, hey baby is your p*ssy hair that blonde too?, etc. etc. etc.). Just imagine what kind of comments you'd hear wearing a shirt like that -- the tone of them varying depending on whether the commenters find you pretty enough to contemplate raping themselves or ugly enough that they wouldn't bother. Believe me, you'd hear about it. What are we supposed to do, start conversations with these kind of trolls? Yeah, like that ever works.

Ugh, ugh, ugh, these shirts are a b-a-d idea.

I understand the intentions behind the shirt, but I think they do more harm then good.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


But the emotional torture of surviving the "two minutes" or much longer can be just as brutal as the six months could ever be. Maybe even more so. There is no time limit on that.
Depends on the age and the circumstances.
i.e. A child that is molested for two minutes as opposed to a college girl that got drunk and happened on an unfortunate sexual escapade that she later regrets...and then calls it "rape".
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The NYT article was blogged over at Salon and this was probably the reader response I most agreed with--although as financeguy said, it's a valid form of expression as far as it goes.
Yeah that response pretty much hits the mark for me too.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:49 PM   #22
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Originally posted by financeguy
What is your view on whether these t-shirts might increase false claims of rape against men, a growing problem which has led to the ruination of many men against whom false accusations have been made? In many cases, the women making the accusations get off scot free.

Someone wearing such a t-shirt where the statement made is untrue could well be likely to make such a false claim.
Well, it's not like the shirt says "I was raped by Joe Jones." There would be no false claim against a man unless someone asked the woman, "who raped you" and she falsely named someone.

And if she's going to falsely accuse someone, she probably wouldn't need the shirt to give her the impetus to do so.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
as opposed to a college girl that got drunk and happened on an unfortunate sexual escapade that she later regrets...and then calls it "rape".
I'm not talking about a false accusation
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The NYT article was blogged over at Salon and this was probably the reader response I most agreed with
What about the "I had an abortion" t-shirt? I just wonder how the dynamics would be different for that one, and how the opinion of that one would be different as a result.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

What about the "I had an abortion" t-shirt? I just wonder how the dynamics would be different for that one, and how the opinion of that one would be different as a result.
To me that falls under the oversharing part too. And the "why on earth would you feel the need to share your most intimate details with perfect strangers?" part too.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:20 PM   #26
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Yeah, personally I'm not too keen on that concept either, and as with the 'Raped' T-shirt, I don't see it leading to lots of productive interchanges with curious strangers (though I suppose I could perhaps see either shirt being effective in the context of a demonstration or rally). But I do think the dynamic there is quite different, because in that case the intended statement is about the wearer's freely chosen exercise of a (controversially) protected right, a right she wishes to remain protected. It might draw angry or scandalized responses, but it isn't likely to draw trivializing ones.

I'm a little worried pursuing this tangent might invite unwelcome derailments though.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:51 PM   #27
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Originally posted by yolland
I'm a little worried pursuing this tangent might invite unwelcome derailments though.
In FYM? Never!
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:14 PM   #28
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That's why you always carry a rape horn
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I don't understand what you're getting at here?
I guess what I am getting at is that if a person was attacked and stabbed three times there would be no stigma of shame or embarrassment attached to it.

With rape it is different for the victim.

The victim of a rape should be made to feel no more guilt or shame than the victim from any other assault.

And that 25,000,000 stat is from the article (one in six)

I think it is horrible!
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I guess what I am getting at is that if a person was attacked and stabbed three times there would be no stigma of shame or embarrassment attached to it.
Well I think the fact that there are no visible scars is part of the reason.

I also think the fact that some have turned it around as to make it the fault of the "they were asking for it" cause...

And others have abused the term to feel better about a regret, or get back against someone who didn't turn out to be who they were...

I think both sides are to blame for the stigma(today, for I think the stigma was much different in the past)...
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