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Old 08-23-2002, 08:29 PM   #31
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Originally posted by U2Bama


I'm not trying to pick your argument apart or anything, I just wanted to point out that I know of a female who was travelling in UAE and was arrested for "cussing" in a bar. Maybe only females are arrested for cussing in bars in UAE, so perhaps it is a "cultural" thing as we are often told...

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In my travels I have been to Egypt and Saudi Arabia (and many, many more) under conditions where I could observe the women interact with other women and males in their society. In Saudi, women could not speak (to a man, unless spoken too first) much less run around yelling profanities.

Egypt is a lot more relaxed, but still there is no women's lib movement like we have and Afghanistan women probably have more "freedom" now than the Egyptian women. OF course, that is an opinion. I still observed many Egyptian women following the "customs" though.
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:55 AM   #32
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Free speech. Hehehe. You guys cant win! Say you love your president, you get attacked. Say you hate your president, you get attacked. Say you hate certain things about your country, you get attacked. Say you love certain things about your country, you get attacked (for having an ego etc).

No matter what side an American sits on, you seem to cop it from the other side. What exactly is freedom of speech there?

Just curious.
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Old 08-24-2002, 04:52 AM   #33
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Originally posted by ouizy
I pledge no Allegiance to any Flag.

Then, your complaints are meaningless.

I do not support the Military.

Truly insulting because they support you and put their lives on the line every day so that you can live in a free world (although you seem to take advantage of it and hate it.)

I hate the Corporations.

Many of these "Corporations" were founded by good men and women who wanted to offer someting to humanity. What have you offered to the world but your hatred???

I hate having Capitalism rammed down my Throat.

Then move to a communist country - see how you like not having choices.

I hate the Illusion of Democracy that everyone clings to.

YOU are able to vote for whomever you want to right, and YOU did, right??? That's Democracy, if you do not like the outcome of your choices, blame yourself.

I believe the Country needs to take care of itself before dealing with Foreign Matters.

We are trying, but if we negelected foriegn affairs, there would be no need fo domestic concerns as we would all be dead.

I hate most of the Citizens of this Once Great Nation.

Read Elvis' comment again, I take this as a a personal affront and you better watch what the hell you say.



Without personally attacking you, I have to say that posts like this truly dismay me. You write this gibberish to get a reply, well here is my reply - stop hating everyone else and look at yourself. How can everyone in the country be bad, how can everyone in the government be against you, how can you have no freedoms when I do, how can you have so many complaints against everyone else without taking some blame yourself. Your post displays the true ignorance that most people in this world hate Americans for. Go tell a starving child in Russia that you hate capitalism, see how they react. Go tell an Israeli child who has witnessed and escaped from suicide bombers that she is in the wrong. Go live in China for a little while and see how many freedoms you have.

The point is this, if you do not like America either do something to change the things you dislike, or in your case - hate, or move away. if you are convinced that there are other places that fulfill your needs, you have every freedom to move to those places, but remember many do not have that freedom.

Before you choose to spew out ignorant posts like this on a website dedicated to a band who fights for other people's rights think about if it is the appropriate place to do so.

To close, if you do not like it here, do not let the emmigration door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Without personally attacking you, I think your post has the value of a cherry pit.

Why are comments meaningless if someone doesnīt pledge alliace to any flag?

Why is it insulting to not support the military when a soldier in most cases does a job he has chosen to do, with or without all its risks. I could understand your argument if you talked about doctors; not to support the Red Cross, might be insulting to some of the peace loving persons on this board, because doctors actually save lives every day. Now, you could answer that military saves lives every day, but you know, most people donīt believe that sort of hype. Weapons are built for killing, they are not medicines.

Corporations? Yeah, Rockefeller wanted to offer sth. to humanity. But how did he get rich ? And what have you offered to the world, dear ouizy? Your presence? Great.

Capitalism is rammed down our throats because it is the dominating system today. About this we donīt have any choice. So capitalism means all choices only to those who are in control. Less choices for the middle class, like you and me, but if they can decide which kind of car they like, thatīs enough choice for most of the sheep. Some like to exaggerate it, with civil society thoughts et al, but nevermind, when things get too rough, they are simply shot, like in Genova last year. No choices for clochards in our own prosperous countries, they canīt decide if to sleep under the bridge or in a bed. Not even a thought about what choosing is for those dying of hunger.

Oh yeah, capitalism. I forgot we are allowed to vote sometimes; what a great thing... it really changes things a lot, hasnīt the world truly improved in the last ten years? And how many parties, how many programs, so intersting to see all those different policies...

You think you would all be dead if you didnīt provoke wars in all the world? Now, if I was a shrink,...

You better watch what the hell you say? Allow me a big grin. And now, have fun in the kindergarten. You donīt think that was full of hate as well?

And sentences like "Go tell a starving child in Russia that you hate capitalism, see how they react"... are you Russian, or what? First this is a stupid example, because, thanks to God, there are not millions of starving children there. They have a hard time, but not as hard as people in India or Africa or Bangladesh. And then, if you enlight them with words like capitalism, they will spit into your face. Because the last ten years their country was robbed by capitalists. And the original thought of those brave men and women, that capitalism would be paradise because you can buy anything, is dead - because they see they donīt have the money, and only get cynical laughs from western Europe ("Ha, what the hell didya think - that its eeeeeaaaaaaaasssssyyyyyyyy??? Just sign another credit!").

Yeah, you should go and live in China for a while, ouizy. So you see how a country feeds - more or less - one billion of people, not 250 millions, and itīs all rice. Or better: why donīt you become a Nike manager and live in a trade free zone in China? Then you can take a look at all those people suffering and bleeding for our well prepared neoliberalistic capitalist knowhow.

So, before you choose to spew out ignorant posts like yours on a website dedicated to a band who fights for peoples rights, think about if its the appropriate place to do so.

Peace.
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Old 08-24-2002, 06:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


I'm not trying to pick your argument apart or anything, I just wanted to point out that I know of a female who was travelling in UAE and was arrested for "cussing" in a bar. Maybe only females are arrested for cussing in bars in UAE, so perhaps it is a "cultural" thing as we are often told...

~U2Alabama
a friend of mine was arrested for excessive cussing outside a bar here in the US of A. it's called 'verbal agression'.
i guess it's not a 'cultural' thing after all.
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Old 08-24-2002, 02:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist

a friend of mine was arrested for excessive cussing outside a bar here in the US of A. it's called 'verbal agression'.
i guess it's not a 'cultural' thing after all.
I do not know the circumstances of your friend (apparently outside on a public road or sidewalk?), but the female I was discussing used a word like "damn" in private table conversation and was overheard. Not "excessive" and not outside. And she would have been okay to cuss if she were not a female.

Was your friend loud and disorderly? There is also a thing known as disorderly conduct.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-24-2002, 05:51 PM   #36
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with all respect to your friend bama, either she was lying about the severity of her 'cussing' or the fact that she got arrested for 'cussing' alone. she was probably drunk, and doesn't remember clearly what she did to get arrested, if that even happened.
in a country like the UAE, and in a bar no less, it's simply not possible to get arrested for saying 'damn' an english, christian, blasphamous word that isn't even a swear word in arabic or islam. i have been to the UAE with my sisters, i'm sure they 'cussed' a lot on the streets, using arabic words no less, and at the shops haggling for clothes. why did they not get arrested?
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Old 08-24-2002, 06:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist
with all respect to your friend bama, either she was lying
With all due respect to YOU, CannibalisticArtist, I do not know exactly what word she used, but she got arrested for swearing/cussing/dirty words whatever we want to call them, in a bar. Not for being drunk. And I think she remembered it quite well, as it DID happen. Tacky on your part.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-24-2002, 06:08 PM   #38
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You can't get locked up for cussing in the UAE. Nor even in Saudi Arabia.

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Old 08-24-2002, 06:09 PM   #39
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She did; mid-1980s. Hard to believe, I know. Sad but true.

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Old 08-24-2002, 06:18 PM   #40
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look bama, it's not possible ok? it's not tacky on my part to question your friend's complaint legitamacy, but it is simply not possible and is frankly quite laughable.
if she did get arrested, in a bar, in the UAE, then she must've been doing something ELSE.
lying or exaggerating choose your option. it's a bar, drinking HAPPENS.
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Old 08-24-2002, 07:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
You can't get locked up for cussing in the UAE. Nor even in Saudi Arabia.

Ant.
I'm not allowed to even leave the house without black polyester covering me from head to toe in Saudi Arabia.

It's interesting that you're calling Bama a liar. Has he lied before? (Doubt it.) Perhaps individual experiences vary. Could be.
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Old 08-24-2002, 11:10 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist
look bama, it's not possible ok? it's not tacky on my part to question your friend's complaint legitamacy, but it is simply not possible and is frankly quite laughable.
if she did get arrested, in a bar, in the UAE, then she must've been doing something ELSE.
lying or exaggerating choose your option. it's a bar, drinking HAPPENS.
Why are you so defensive of thier system? How is it "not possible"? Were you there monitoring customer behavior and police activity at all of the bars? What about these splendid cases on the the liberal human rights organization Amnesty International's website?

Freedom of Press, or the lack thereof...
In September 2000, an unidentified individual claiming to represent the Ministry of Information reportedly contacted newspapers, including al-Khaleej, and television shows in the UAE, informing them that approximately 15 presenters and writers could no longer appear in their respective media. This alleged ban appeared to remain in force at the end of 2001.

Freedom of Speech/Religion (ha ha)
In March, three US nationals were arrested in Dubai for promoting Christianity by distributing Christian religious materials on busy streets. They were released on bail in early April, and press reports of 11 April quoted US embassy sources stating that all three had been deported. (Dirty Americans probably deserved it!)

Freedom to Not be FLOGGED When You Transcend Boundaries In Marriage
Elie Dib Ghaleb, a 30 year-old Christian Lebanese national has been sentenced to 39 lashes and one years' imprisonment reportedly solely for having married Mona, a Muslim woman from the United Arab Emirates (UAE). His ordeal began on 5 December 1995 when police went to the Intercontinental Hotel in al-'Ain in Abu Dhabi, where he worked as a restaurant manager, took him to his residence and searched for his marriage certificate. When they found it they arrested him. He was detained until 29 October 1996 when a Shari'a court in al-'Ain tried and sentenced him allegedly solely because of his marriage, as a Christian, to Mona.

Elie Dib Ghaleb has been working in the UAE, where he met Mona, since 1988. In June 1995 they were married in Lebanon. Subsequently, Elie Dib Ghaleb went back to his work in the UAE, while Mona returned to the United States of America to complete her business studies at Francis Marion University in Florence, South California.

Elie Dib Ghaleb is reported to have been beaten a number of times since his arrest. He is also alleged to have been flogged many times after investigation with him by police in al-'Ain. He is said to be suffering from high blood pressure, for which he was hospitalized twice for treatment.

Under Shari'a (Islamic) law, in force in the UAE, a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry a non-Muslim man unless he converts to Islam. Such marriage under Shari'a in the UAE is considered null and void, and the parties may be subject to punishment such as imprisonment or flogging for fornication.

In April 1996 Amnesty International wrote to the UAE authorities expressing concern at the detention of Elie Dib Ghaleb and seeking clarification as to the exact reason for his arrest and detention. To date, no response has been received. The organization issued urgent appeals calling on the UAE authorities to immediately and unconditionally release Elie Dib Ghaleb, as he has been imprisoned solely on religious grounds, and commute the sentence of flogging. The authorities have not officially responded and the case was reportedly referred to the office of the UAE President, Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al-Nahyan, for a final decision. Some reports suggest that Elie Dib Ghaleb expressed his intent to convert to Islam and such a measure would save him from the punishment to which he has been sentenced.

Amnesty International considers that the imprisonment and the sentence of flogging passed on Elie Dib Ghaleb for having married Mona to be a grave violation of his right freely to hold and express his beliefs and to be free from discrimination by reason of religion. Amnesty International considers him to be a prisoner of conscience imprisoned solely on religious grounds and has been calling for his immediate and unconditional release. Elie Dib Ghaleb has spent over a year in prison and at the time of writing he remained held at al-'Ain Central Prison. No information was available on whether the sentence of flogging has been carried out.

Amnesty International is also concerned at reports that Elie Dib Ghaleb was beaten in prison, and urges the authorities to investigate these reports and bring to justice anyone found responsible. It also calls on the authorities to end the use of flogging as a judicial punishment, which it considers to be cruel, inhuman and degrading.

(Wow, maybe I should have posted this one in the religious conversions/marriage thread! I mus admit that I do feel guilty; getting arrested for cussing in a bar is nothing compared to being imrpisoned for a year and flogged for marrying someone of a different religion and not converting to her religion. I guess he was just a dirty infidel.)

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-25-2002, 02:55 AM   #43
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thanks for the general knowledge cut & paste bama.

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



AI-index: AMR 51/051/2002 28/03/2002

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Public Statement
28 March 2002
AI Index AMR 51/051/2002 - News Service Nr. 57

USA: Amnesty International calls for investigation on alleged beating of inmate in Kentucky jail (his fault for commiting a crime!!111)


Amnesty International is calling on the Kentucky authorities to hold a full, impartial inquiry into the alleged beating of Chad Boggess in the Boyd County Detention Center ten days ago. The incident left him with multiple injuries and in a coma on a life support machine.

While the full facts are not yet known, other inmates have alleged witnessing guards and police officers kicking and stomping on Burgess and beating him with night sticks in a sustained attack during the night of 16-17 March. They also claim inmates were allowed to join in at one point.

The allegations are deeply disturbing and suggest that Boggess may have been subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in gross violation of international standards and treaties to which the US is a party. International standards require that whenever there is ground for believing that such treatment may have occurred, the authorities must proceed to a full, impartial inquiry.

Amnesty International is concerned by allegations that Boggess was sprayed with large quantities of mace or pepper spray, and that he may have been hogtied -- a dangerous form of restraint which has been banned by many police departments.

The organization welcomes reports that the FBI and state and local police have opened criminal investigations into the incident, and is urging that these investigations be conducted with the utmost thoroughness so that the full facts can be established and those responsible for any wrongdoing brought to justice.

Amnesty International is also calling on the state corrections department -- which oversees jails -- to conduct an inquiry into all the circumstances of what happened. Such an inquiry should include a review of what precipitated the incident; who was responsible for authorizing or supervising the use of force; what quantities of chemical spray were used; and a review of the adequacy of jail policies and procedures on the use of force and restraints.

The organization expressed shock at the allegations that guards and even inmates took part in a sustained beating -- which, if confirmed, would suggest not only criminal wrongdoing but a serious breakdown in standards and supervision at the jail -- and urged the authorities to make it clear that any use of excessive force and ill-treatment by guards will not be tolerated. It also called for international standards on the use of force to be incoporated into police guidelines and training.


AI Index: AMR 51/103/2002 (Public)
News Service No: 110
28 June 2002

USA: Time to rethink the death penalty - 30 years after landmark court ruling (ha ha at least we kill them mercifully, not like those dirty a-rabs and their stoning!!11!!)

Politicians in the United States should use the 30th anniversary of Furman v Georgia, the Supreme Court decision which overturned the country's capital laws, to reflect upon the USA's increasingly isolated position on the death penalty and to begin to work towards its abolition, Amnesty International said today.

"US officials should be troubled by the damage that the death penalty inflicts on their country's reputation in an increasingly abolitionist world", Amnesty International said. "The failure of their predecessors to seize the opportunity presented by the Furman decision to lead their country away from judicial killing is coming home to roost 30 years on".

The Furman v Georgia ruling was handed down on 29 June 1972. It found that the arbitrary manner in which the death penalty was being applied rendered it unconstitutional. Although only two of the Justices found the death penalty unconstitutional per se, the ruling nevertheless overturned existing death sentences. However, instead of progressing towards abolition, the country's legislators set about rewriting their capital statutes. In 1976, the US Supreme Court upheld the new laws, and executions resumed in 1977 with the killing of Gary Gilmore in Utah.

"Nearly 800 executions later, the evidence continues to mount that the capital justice system is tainted by arbitrariness, discrimination and error", Amnesty International continued. "At the same time, the number of countries that have abolished the death penalty in law or practice has risen to 111, a clear majority worldwide".

The USA frequently violates international minimum safeguards in its pursuit of the death penalty, including in its use against people whose guilt remains in doubt; defendants denied their right to adequate legal representation; the mentally impaired; foreign nationals denied their consular rights; and child offenders -- those under 18 at the time of their crimes.

Last week the US Supreme Court finally ruled that the execution of people with mental retardation violates the Constitution. The ruling came 13 years after a resolution was adopted at the United Nations calling on all retentionist countries to abolish such use of the death penalty.

"US officials frequently promote their country as the world's most progressive force for human rights", Amnesty International said. "Their continuing failure to put an end to the ultimate cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment starkly gives the lie to that claim".

Since judicial killing resumed in the USA in January 1977, 784 men and women have been put to death nationwide. More than 500 of these executions have occurred since 1995.

See: USA: Wrong Turn - An international perspective on the 30th anniversary of Furman v. Georgia (AMR 51/102/2002, 28 June 2002), available on www.amnesty.org

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/recent/amr511022002

USA: Stop discriminating against Haitian asylum-seekers (GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY!! LOL)


Amnesty International today expressed concern that asylum-seekers from Haiti are being subject, as a matter of course, to indefinite detention in the USA without adequate opportunity to present their claims for asylum and in conditions which are unsuitable for refugees.

Amnesty International is also disturbed at reports that a substantial number of Haitian asylum-seekers who have shown a credible fear of persecution in Haiti have been ordered deported. The organization fears that more Haitian asylum-seekers may face the same fate.

A lawsuit, filed in mid-March by immigration attorneys and Haitian rights advocates on behalf of Haitian asylum seekers in Miami, Florida, alleges that the US government is discriminating against Haitian asylum seekers, including those who have shown they have a credible fear of persecution in Haiti, by continuing to detain them as their claims proceed, while refugees from other countries are released. Those whose claims are pending include a woman opposition activist who claims she was raped and beaten by a local political leader of the pro-government Lavalas party after she helped campaign for the opposition party.

The lawsuit describes how -- contrary to previous policy under which Haitian asylum seekers who had demonstrated a credible fear of persecution in Haiti were regularly released within a few days of arriving -- the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) is holding them for months in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions where they endure harsh treatment and abuse. It also claims that the process for dealing with Haitian asylum claims has been speeded up, depriving applicants of a full and fair opportunity to present their asylum claims, with many going without legal representation as a result. In addition, the lawsuit alleges that efforts to provide legal representation to Haitian asylum-seekers are being severely hampered at detention centres such as the Krome Processing Service Center near Miami and the Turner Guildford Knight Correctional Center (TGK), a maximum security jail in Miami.

Amnesty International is concerned at allegations that women detainees taken to TGK in Miami are suffering especially harsh treatment. This includes: verbal abuse and insults by guards; frequent cell "lockdowns" for hours at a time; and inadequate provision of food, medical care and exercise facilities.

In March, in responding to the lawsuit, the INS admitted that its new policy of detaining Haitian asylum seekers was to deter other Haitians from attempting to enter the USA and to avoid further risk-taking. International standards provide that asylum-seekers should not normally be detained, furthermore the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has recently stated that the detention of asylum seekers for deterrence purposes is contrary to international refugee law and that detention of asylum seekers based on national origin is discriminatory and would constitute arbitrary detention.

Amnesty International is calling on the US authorities to fully reinstate the government's previous policy regarding Haitian asylum-seekers; to ensure that all Haitian asylum-seekers have a full and fair opportunity to present their asylum claims; to take immediate steps to ensure the safety and well being of women asylum seekers at TGK; not to deport anyone who has shown a credible fear of persecution; and to find more suitable alternatives to housing asylum seekers than local jails.

Background
The new INS policy was put into place after 167 Haitians were rescued by the US Coast Guard from a boat in difficulties off the coast of Florida in December 2001. More than 270 Haitians with a credible fear of persecution in Haiti have been detained since December. While the INS recently released a small number of Haitian asylum seekers, announcing that it had amended its policy of non-release, Amnesty International understands that this amendment is very limited in that it will affect only a handful of Haitians who arrive in the USA by air (while the majority of Haitians arrive by boat). Moreover, the amended policy still requires Haitian asylum-seekers to complete excessive documentation not required of other groups seeking asylum. Haitians arriving by boat are reportedly still being detained without exception.




you still CANNOT get arrested for 'cussing' in UAE. your friend is still lying/exaggerating.
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Old 08-25-2002, 08:09 AM   #44
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In Michigan, a man was arrested for cussing loudly in front of women and children, in violation of a 100 year old state law that hadn't been enforced in decades.

He was also convicted, but the law and conviction were later declared unconstitutional.

America certainly has its "unfree" moments...but, at least, our court system was able to weed out this abuse.

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Old 08-25-2002, 08:22 AM   #45
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"I'm not allowed to even leave the house without black polyester covering me from head to toe in Saudi Arabia.

It's interesting that you're calling Bama a liar. Has he lied before? (Doubt it.) Perhaps individual experiences vary. Could be."

Well, no. It isn't so very interesting because I'm not calling Bama a liar at all. I'm just wondering where he got his facts from. Also, the distinction between a person who is a liar and someone who tells an incidental lie is a rather huge one. How you can correlate the two from one sentence is very interesting.

As for the Saudi Arabian thing, you are quite right. My mother was indeed forced to wear such apparel. However, that was ages ago in the late 80s. I confess I do NOT know how things work now, but I have had people come back to me and tell me that young teenage girls get to wear what they wish. Now, that is.

I agree, individual experiences DO vary. However, I lived in Kuwait for seven years, the UAE for two years, as well as Bahrain and Qatar. Kuwait and UAE paticularly stick out for me because I was a teenager there. Primarily, I have never come across such law that you can get arrested for cussing in either of those countries, indeed, most people swear all the time. Not to even mention the police, just like any other country. What I do remember, is spending every weekend out with my friends out on the street (with the help of alchohol in the UAE) being extremely roudy and doing what most tennagers do at that age, in a crowded street with the occasional police passing by, and of course, not ever having one single brush with the law. This wasn't purely out of our own individual experiences, but also because we had no fear in doing what we were doing because it simply didn't happen; no one got arrested for something as trivial as that. I'm sorry, but if I have to choose between my considerable personal experience with what Bama heard from someone else, I choose the former.

Ant.
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