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Old 07-30-2003, 01:37 AM   #16
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Lilly:

To me it would make more sense when you said "all people who haven't been raped should read that book"
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Old 07-30-2003, 01:56 AM   #17
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Kalus is right, but your heart is in the right place.
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Old 07-30-2003, 04:04 AM   #18
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thanks bonoman


it's hard to articulate exactly what i mean klaus. i kind of meant that it was implicit that those who haven't been raped should read it, but that it was particularly important for men to read it. just because it's something that is easier for another woman to empathize with.

is that clearer? ... like i said, it's hard to explain well.
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Old 07-30-2003, 04:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
FizzingWhizzbees:

I didn't suggest psychotherapy instead of Jail but additional to it.
If you just lock them behind doors for several years there are verry view who change to better. If you help them (psychotherapy for rapists, maybe learning a job for burglars etc) they might become less dangerours for our society.

So i guess we think pretty much the same way (rehabilitation instead of punishment) that's why i thougt instead of more punishment, give them the chance to change and a flexible time of punishment. (People where the psychotherapists don't think that they changed should be longer imprisoned then people where they think that they have changed)
I do agree with you mostly - I think prison needs to be about rehabilitation if only for the reason that so many prisoners go out and re-offend because they aren't able to get a job or a home or anything else they would need to live an "ordinary" life.

However I still think that all too often rapists are given sentences that in no way reflect the severity of the crime they commmitted and I don't agree with having sentences which are 'flexible' to the extent where a convicted rapist serves one third of his sentence and is released within months of being convicted.
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Old 07-30-2003, 05:14 AM   #20
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
How about instead of just calling for a "truce" we call for a legal system which actually punishes those men who think women are nothing more than their punchbags.

How about a criminal justice system which doesn't give laughable sentences of six months, eighteen months, two years to men convicted of rape.

How about ending the humiliating practice of allowing rapists to question their victims in court. How about instead of expecting women to prove that they said no, we expect men to prove that they said yes. (After all, if a woman is unconscious she can't say no but she's certainly not saying yes either.)

Why do we talk about educating young women about "avoiding rape"? Why do we pretend that we can just tell girls not to wear short skirts and not to drink too much and that'll magically protect them from rapists. Why don't we talk about educating young men about preventing rape?

Less than 10% of rapists are ever even charged with a crime. Even fewer are ever tried and sentenced for their crime. Maybe if we had a legal system which took this horrible crime more seriously and ensured those who commit it are tried and punished severely we'd see a meaningful decrease in the frequency of this crime.

A-freakin-men!

*High fives Fizz*

I am so incredibly sick of people blaming the victim for the rape, saying that if they hadn't been drinking or wearing that outfit or walking down that street or so on that they wouldn't have been raped.

Just because a person's dressed sexy, just because they've been drinking, or just because they want to walk down a certain street (some people, that may be their only route to where they're going, their closest one, etc.-not to mention, I'd like to be able to go wherever I please without fearing for my life), that gives a person absolutely no right to take advantage of them. None whatsoever.

And ditto what bonoman said, too.

All rapists and murderers should be locked up in a tiny jail cell for the rest of their lives without any chance of parole. It's insane that they're constantly allowed back out on the streets.

Angela
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Old 07-30-2003, 09:05 AM   #21
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FizzingWhizzbees:
you're right, it is absolutely disgusting that people who raped several children get less sentences than someone who just stole lots of money.

Klaus
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Old 07-31-2003, 08:39 AM   #22
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http://slate.msn.com/id/2086422/



This writer is staing that rape laws are too severe and that punishments are too harsh, yet she doesn't name a *single* example of a rape sentence that she finds to be too harsh. And shouldn't rape carry a sentence heavier than stealing a car or dealing drugs? The only thing, IMHO, that should be punished more harshly than rape is child molestation or murder.
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Old 07-31-2003, 09:16 AM   #23
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I guess she never heard about the Sydney magistrate who sentenced the youth in the gang rape case to 55 years. I still applaud that.
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Old 07-31-2003, 09:22 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
http://slate.msn.com/id/2086422/



This writer is staing that rape laws are too severe and that punishments are too harsh, yet she doesn't name a *single* example of a rape sentence that she finds to be too harsh. And shouldn't rape carry a sentence heavier than stealing a car or dealing drugs? The only thing, IMHO, that should be punished more harshly than rape is child molestation or murder.


Quote:
<snip?The answer has little to do with this specific case and everything to do with our national hysteria over rape law—a hysteria that rape accusations are now easier than ever to make and easier than ever to prove, that rape convictions can now be based on the barest assertions, that punishment for rape is harsher than for anything save murder.
It's nuckfuts like this that prevent women who really need help from asking for it, because they are afraid they'll be called liars, that their reputation will be ruined.

OK fine if you think some women cried rape when there wasn't... if we teach the seriousness of the issue, if respect is cultivated in our culture and people of all ages and races and genders refuse to tolerate rape, then perhaps it will change these women's false cries and desires or abilities to be able to do that. But do NOT make it harder for a woman who was raped to receive help, guidance or healing because of minority.

Quote:
<snip> But these feminist reformers also made things worse in many ways—perhaps because the feminists had a conflicting second agenda: to promote women's sexual freedom. Complaints of date rape and acquaintance rape soared. A legal regime that barely did an adequate job prosecuting stranger-in-the-bushes rape was suddenly pressed into service to unearth subtle legal nuances of "power" and "consent."
Perhaps women were finally feeling they could speak up about things that happened, that these cases came out. Perhaps women finally saw convinctions taking place, and realized they had a right to their own sexuality and no one could take that away from them, that they were not as scared to say their boyfriend or date raped them. She makes it sound as if date rape and acquaintance rape are all made up in the mind of women who are trying to be more sexually free.

Quote:
Sanctions remain too extreme, and the protections afforded the victim are also too extreme.


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Old 08-01-2003, 01:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by oliveu2cm






It's nuckfuts like this that prevent women who really need help from asking for it, because they are afraid they'll be called liars, that their reputation will be ruined.

OK fine if you think some women cried rape when there wasn't... if we teach the seriousness of the issue, if respect is cultivated in our culture and people of all ages and races and genders refuse to tolerate rape, then perhaps it will change these women's false cries and desires or abilities to be able to do that. But do NOT make it harder for a woman who was raped to receive help, guidance or healing because of minority.



Perhaps women were finally feeling they could speak up about things that happened, that these cases came out. Perhaps women finally saw convinctions taking place, and realized they had a right to their own sexuality and no one could take that away from them, that they were not as scared to say their boyfriend or date raped them. She makes it sound as if date rape and acquaintance rape are all made up in the mind of women who are trying to be more sexually free.





I agree with what yoursaying but the context in which you are saying it makes it seem like this is only limited to women. It is not.
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Old 08-01-2003, 01:56 AM   #26
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I have a friend who was almost raped. Thank God she wasn't. She managed to get away. She didn't tell me for a while. I would have wanted to find him and rip his heart out.
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Old 08-01-2003, 07:35 AM   #27
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bonoman:
you're right, it is not only limited to women - and worse than that, according to a report i've read, there almost no institutions who are willing to help male victims, also their fear that noone will believe them is much higher, especially if the committer is female it is emotionally verry verry hard for them.

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Old 08-01-2003, 12:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
I agree with what yoursaying but the context in which you are saying it makes it seem like this is only limited to women. It is not.
Just two weeks ago, a male friend of mine had Rohypnol, the 'date rape drug,' slipped into his drink by two men. Probably the intent was to rob him rather than rape him--or at least that's what my friend suspected. Still, you are quite right.
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Old 08-02-2003, 07:44 AM   #29
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Thank you for posting this, paxetaurora.

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Old 08-02-2003, 10:47 AM   #30
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Thanks for saying so, foray!
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