deep
Blue Crack Addict
"I trust God speaks through me..
Without that. I couldn't do my job."
Without that. I couldn't do my job."
"I trust God speaks through me..."
- Thread starter deep
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
BonosSaint
Rock n' Roll Doggie
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,566
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
If you believe that a cluster of embryonic stem cells are a human life then please just refuse treatment and allow those of supposedly lower moral scruples to have every chance to save their lives.
trevster2k
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,330
If Bush had to rush into a burning room, and there was a trayful of 60 embryos and a little kid, which would he rescue if he could only save one or the other?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
A_Wanderer said:
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
So "murder" of embryos is wrong, but letting people die of diseases that could possibly be cured (or at least lives prolonged and/or saved) with stem cell research isn't? Oh well, just avoid that slippery slope
(AP)The Senate voted Tuesday after two days of emotional debate to expand federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, sending the measure to President Bush for a promised veto that would be the first of his presidency.
The bill passed 63-37, four votes short of the two-thirds majority that would be needed to override Bush's veto. The president left little doubt he would reject the bill despite late appeals on its behalf from fellow Republicans Nancy Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
"The simple answer is he thinks murder's wrong," said White House spokesman Tony Snow. "The president is not going to get on the slippery slope of taking something living and making it dead for the purposes of scientific research."
Senate supporters of the bill likened that logic to opposition suffered by Galileo, Christopher Columbus and others who were rebuked in their time but vindicated later.
Polls show as much as 70 percent public support for embryonic stem cell research.
"There has been an upsurge of demand," said Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. Support for the legislation "has crossed every line we could imagine, certainly partisan lines, ethnic, racial, geographic lines."
But in a surprise victory for embryonic stem cell supporters, the House defeated a second bill that would have encouraged stem cell research from sources other than embryos. Opponents of that bill, sponsored by Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., called it election-year cover that would allow Bush and other embryonic stem cell opponents to say they nonetheless support stem cell research.
While the Senate approved that measure unanimously, the House's 273-154 vote fell 12 votes short of the two-thirds majority required for passage under the rules. The House could try again to pass the bill Wednesday by a simple majority and send it to Bush for his signature.
Meanwhile, both the House and Senate unanimously approved a related bill, which Bush was expected to sign into law, to ban so-called "fetal farming," the prospect of raising and aborting fetuses for scientific research.
The embryonic research bill split the GOP. Nineteen Senate Republicans voted for the bill and against Bush and politically key social conservatives. One Democrat, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, voted against it.
It was the first time Bush was wielding the veto pen against legislation passed by the Republican-controlled Congress. Snow said the president had issued 141 veto threats during his five and a half years in the White House, often against spending increases for domestic programs. This was the first time no deal could be cut, Snow said.
California Gov. Schwarzenegger wrote to Bush, "Mr. President, I urge you not to make the first veto of your presidency one that turns America backwards on the path of scientific progress and limits the promise of medical miracles for generations to come."
Mrs. Reagan, the former first lady whose husband died after suffering from Alzheimer's disease, had quietly made calls to a few senators to try to build support toward a veto-proof margin in the Senate. In a statement following the vote, she did not refer directly to the likelihood of a Bush veto.
"With this important vote in favor of embryonic stem cell research (H.R. 810), the pleas of so many suffering families have finally been heard," she said. "Time is short, and life is precious, and I hope this promising research can now move forward."
The White House and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist worked for what they considered the next closest thing: stem cell-related bills Bush could sign.
Enactment of the bill to encourage research on adult stem cells enables Bush and other opponents of embryonic stem cell studies to say they, nonetheless, support stem cell science.
"The president is not opposed to stem cell research, he's all for it," Snow said.
"We must draw the ethical line at research that destroys human life," said House Majority Whip Roy Blunt of Missouri.
Embryonic stem cells are essentially master cells, able to morph into all the cell types found in the body. If scientists could learn to control these cells and coax them into becoming specific types on demand, they could grow replacements for damaged tissue. The idea is to use this process — still theoretical — to cure or treat a raft of diseases and injuries, from diabetes to Alzheimer's and spinal cord damage.
Opponents of federal funding for embryonic stem cell research say studies on cells derived from adults and umbilical cords is more advanced, less controversial and more deserving of federal funding.
How fast the science for both types of stem cell research proceeds depends on how much money the federal government is willing to spend, and for which kind. Supporters of the embryonic stem cell bill say the engine of public funding would greatly accelerate cures and treatments.
The House last year fell 50 votes short of a veto-proof margin when it passed the same embryonic stem cell bill, 238-194. Fifty Republicans voted for the bill, in defiance of Bush and many of their party leaders.
Republican leaders in the House planned an override vote as early as Wednesday evening, confident that Bush's veto of the embryonic stem cell bill would be sustained.
Actress Mary Tyler Moore appeared with Frist during the day, saying she was very disappointed by Bush's stance.
"This is an intelligent human being with a heart, and I don't see how much longer he can deny those aspects of himself," she said.
(AP)The Senate voted Tuesday after two days of emotional debate to expand federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, sending the measure to President Bush for a promised veto that would be the first of his presidency.
The bill passed 63-37, four votes short of the two-thirds majority that would be needed to override Bush's veto. The president left little doubt he would reject the bill despite late appeals on its behalf from fellow Republicans Nancy Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
"The simple answer is he thinks murder's wrong," said White House spokesman Tony Snow. "The president is not going to get on the slippery slope of taking something living and making it dead for the purposes of scientific research."
Senate supporters of the bill likened that logic to opposition suffered by Galileo, Christopher Columbus and others who were rebuked in their time but vindicated later.
Polls show as much as 70 percent public support for embryonic stem cell research.
"There has been an upsurge of demand," said Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. Support for the legislation "has crossed every line we could imagine, certainly partisan lines, ethnic, racial, geographic lines."
But in a surprise victory for embryonic stem cell supporters, the House defeated a second bill that would have encouraged stem cell research from sources other than embryos. Opponents of that bill, sponsored by Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., called it election-year cover that would allow Bush and other embryonic stem cell opponents to say they nonetheless support stem cell research.
While the Senate approved that measure unanimously, the House's 273-154 vote fell 12 votes short of the two-thirds majority required for passage under the rules. The House could try again to pass the bill Wednesday by a simple majority and send it to Bush for his signature.
Meanwhile, both the House and Senate unanimously approved a related bill, which Bush was expected to sign into law, to ban so-called "fetal farming," the prospect of raising and aborting fetuses for scientific research.
The embryonic research bill split the GOP. Nineteen Senate Republicans voted for the bill and against Bush and politically key social conservatives. One Democrat, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, voted against it.
It was the first time Bush was wielding the veto pen against legislation passed by the Republican-controlled Congress. Snow said the president had issued 141 veto threats during his five and a half years in the White House, often against spending increases for domestic programs. This was the first time no deal could be cut, Snow said.
California Gov. Schwarzenegger wrote to Bush, "Mr. President, I urge you not to make the first veto of your presidency one that turns America backwards on the path of scientific progress and limits the promise of medical miracles for generations to come."
Mrs. Reagan, the former first lady whose husband died after suffering from Alzheimer's disease, had quietly made calls to a few senators to try to build support toward a veto-proof margin in the Senate. In a statement following the vote, she did not refer directly to the likelihood of a Bush veto.
"With this important vote in favor of embryonic stem cell research (H.R. 810), the pleas of so many suffering families have finally been heard," she said. "Time is short, and life is precious, and I hope this promising research can now move forward."
The White House and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist worked for what they considered the next closest thing: stem cell-related bills Bush could sign.
Enactment of the bill to encourage research on adult stem cells enables Bush and other opponents of embryonic stem cell studies to say they, nonetheless, support stem cell science.
"The president is not opposed to stem cell research, he's all for it," Snow said.
"We must draw the ethical line at research that destroys human life," said House Majority Whip Roy Blunt of Missouri.
Embryonic stem cells are essentially master cells, able to morph into all the cell types found in the body. If scientists could learn to control these cells and coax them into becoming specific types on demand, they could grow replacements for damaged tissue. The idea is to use this process — still theoretical — to cure or treat a raft of diseases and injuries, from diabetes to Alzheimer's and spinal cord damage.
Opponents of federal funding for embryonic stem cell research say studies on cells derived from adults and umbilical cords is more advanced, less controversial and more deserving of federal funding.
How fast the science for both types of stem cell research proceeds depends on how much money the federal government is willing to spend, and for which kind. Supporters of the embryonic stem cell bill say the engine of public funding would greatly accelerate cures and treatments.
The House last year fell 50 votes short of a veto-proof margin when it passed the same embryonic stem cell bill, 238-194. Fifty Republicans voted for the bill, in defiance of Bush and many of their party leaders.
Republican leaders in the House planned an override vote as early as Wednesday evening, confident that Bush's veto of the embryonic stem cell bill would be sustained.
Actress Mary Tyler Moore appeared with Frist during the day, saying she was very disappointed by Bush's stance.
"This is an intelligent human being with a heart, and I don't see how much longer he can deny those aspects of himself," she said.
AussieU2fanman
Refugee
The Christian stance on stem cell research is clear, so who are we to say that "God" isn't speaking through him? (not that I believe God is, I don't believe in God)
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
Well it's not as clear cut as the attitude towards the gays.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/18/brownback-embryo/
"Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) is leading the opposition to the H.R. 810, the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act. Yesterday, during debate on the bill, he held up a picture of an embryo drawn by a 7-year-old girl. Relaying a conversation with the girl’s mother, Brownback said the embryo was asking the Senate, “Are you going to kill me?”
Brownback is misleading. The embryos funded by H.R. 810 were “created for the purposes of in vitro fertilization…which are spare or in excess of clinical need and in every single case are slated for medical waste.” Only about 10 percent of embryos are adopted — the rest are disposed of. If H.R. 810 passes, they will instead be used to develop potentially live-saving cures for millions of people."
The whole transcript of his speech is at the link
"Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) is leading the opposition to the H.R. 810, the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act. Yesterday, during debate on the bill, he held up a picture of an embryo drawn by a 7-year-old girl. Relaying a conversation with the girl’s mother, Brownback said the embryo was asking the Senate, “Are you going to kill me?”
Brownback is misleading. The embryos funded by H.R. 810 were “created for the purposes of in vitro fertilization…which are spare or in excess of clinical need and in every single case are slated for medical waste.” Only about 10 percent of embryos are adopted — the rest are disposed of. If H.R. 810 passes, they will instead be used to develop potentially live-saving cures for millions of people."
The whole transcript of his speech is at the link
Liesje
Blue Crack Addict
MrsSpringsteen said:
This is what angers me. People don't GET this. I watched a documentary on Christopher Reeve and he went to advocate for stem cell. It was heartbreaking to hear him give such logical arguements in favor, only to be shushed by people who would rather save unfertalized eggs in coolers than save living humans.
JCOSTER
ONE love, blood, life
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
so very true...I was sad to read in the paper that there was most likely going to be a veto.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=2210355
Here is an article on Michael J. Fox from this week. He was pleading to the president to allow Stem Cell Research.
Here is an article on Michael J. Fox from this week. He was pleading to the president to allow Stem Cell Research.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
The President is not banning Stem Cell Research - just federal funding. Anyone of you can go do research with Stem Cells and there are plenty of profit motivated companies willing to make the investment.
This is just a political move to stir the extreme right faction of the party.
This is just a political move to stir the extreme right faction of the party.
80sU2isBest
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2000
- Messages
- 4,970
nbcrusader said:
I diagree that it is "just a political move". I think he truly believes in what he's doing.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
It seems to me the conservatives (not all) care more about the unborn than those on this earth.
But that just opened a can of worms.
But that just opened a can of worms.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
80sU2isBest said:
actually, i agree. i think Bush's stance on this issue is morally abhorrent, but i think he's sincere.
in his worldview, this:
has the same value as this:
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
U2democrat said:
unless it's an unborn gay.
80sU2isBest
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2000
- Messages
- 4,970
U2democrat said:
No can of worms opened, because quite frankly, the comment is so inaccurate, it doesn't even bear serious discussion.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
The slippery slope is the government-sponsored growth and harvesting of living tissue.
Once begun, where will it end?
As nbc correctly pointed out, there are any number of privately-funded companies that can and do perform this same type of research.
Once begun, where will it end?
As nbc correctly pointed out, there are any number of privately-funded companies that can and do perform this same type of research.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nathan1977 said:
would you leave cancer and AIDS research to privately-funded companies?
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Irvine511 said:
Would you trust the government to run it?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nathan1977 said:
i would trust the government to regulate it and i wouldn't turn away federal funds. i'd embrace them.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
No matter the ethical issues at play? You haven't addressed the primary focus of my comment.
tackleberry
War Child
nathan1977 said:
I am curious as to know what they do with the unborn fetus? Isn't the possibility of curing a disease important? Isn't that an ethical question to answer? It's almost the same as donating your organs....
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nathan1977 said:
i don't think there's an ethical issue here.
cells are not humans.
i care about people.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
^ Let me refresh your memory.
The issue here is the slippery slope of government-sponsored growth and harvesting of living tissue.
Once begun, where will it end?
The issue here is the slippery slope of government-sponsored growth and harvesting of living tissue.
Once begun, where will it end?
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
nathan1977 said:
When they begin cloning people, letting them live till adulthood, and then harvesting their organs, of course.
I wonder if Bush would feel differently if it were one of his family suffering from a debilitating or fatal disease.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VintagePunk said:
When they begin cloning people, letting them live till adulthood, and then harvesting their organs, of course.
There are a host of other doors these issues open long before then.
Similar threads
