I think we now know which Palestinians have power. - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-22-2003, 09:03 PM   #46
Babyface
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 14
Local Time: 10:30 PM
amna - please don't insult our intelligence with conspiracy theories. every death in the west bank is highly publicized - the IDF cannot get away with murder.

The West Bank is a war zone. Why? Because that is the base of Palestinian terrorists, who indiscriminately kill innocent Israeli civilians. If you choose to turn the tables and say that Israel is the base of Israeli terrorists, that is absolutely incorrect, because the IDF is an army that, by international law, cannot indiscriminately kill civilians. Any civilians who are killed are casualties of war, and it is a shame. But it's bound to happen - that is the law of probability. The Palestinian leadership had a chance to end it, with former President Clinton's help, and chose not to.

As far as your golden video goes, anyone can make a biased video. it doesn't matter who was in the video - there are enough people and opinions to slant anything. If you were to show a pro-israeli video, there would be protesters too. And that is what makes democracy great.
__________________

__________________
Ramu is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 01:26 AM   #47
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 633
Local Time: 03:30 AM
This may be part of the problem...

Four Palestinian militants died late Sunday, apparently when a bomb they were planting went off in northern Gaza...Later, however, loudspeaker trucks drove through the area saying that the four died while “fulfilling their national duty,” a phrase used in the past to announce accidental deaths.

As long as the Palestinians have the midset that bombing innocent humans is 'fulfilling their national duty,' there will be no peace.

Please don't try and spin this into it being Israel's fault that these people killed themselves.
__________________

__________________
wolfwill23 is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:55 AM   #48
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Just east of Brunoville..
Posts: 50
Local Time: 04:30 AM
Perhaps if the USA would demonstrate a bit more benevolence towards the Palestinian people similar to the 15 Billion Africa/Aids package this would take the issue away that "the USA is only Pro Israel."
This would in turn make the general Palestinian population less beholden to terrorists groups such as Hamas.

Atticus.
__________________
the hand that leads you
is the hand that
will push you away..
Atticus Finch is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 07:13 AM   #49
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 04:30 AM
Both sides are guilty, and it's sad to see how they educate their kids

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 11:55 AM   #50
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Atticus Finch
Perhaps if the USA would demonstrate a bit more benevolence towards the Palestinian people similar to the 15 Billion Africa/Aids package this would take the issue away that "the USA is only Pro Israel."
This would in turn make the general Palestinian population less beholden to terrorists groups such as Hamas.
I hear this quite often, but find no evidence to support such a theory. Hammas wants Israel gone, not $$$.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 12:22 PM   #51
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
ouizy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: s p o r a t i c
Posts: 3,788
Local Time: 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
wolfwill23,

Would your policy be the same for any Jewish/Zionist groups that used the same tactics? that is: terror, bombings, etc.?
Of course mine would be, I would, however, like you or Amna to point out even one of these groups and then I can comment on it.

As far as Nbcrusader's comment I have to agree. Hamas has plenty of money, from the Palestinians as well as outside sources.

Imagine this:

Imagine Hamas putting these funds towards the construction of schools, hospitals, playgrounds etc. instead of detonators, cell phones, plastic explosives and other death-inflicting materials.

Hard to imagine? Damn right. Why? Because they are a large group of people created not to better the lives of their own kind, but to destroy the lives of their self-proclaimed enemies.

Why should anyone give them anything?

I will stand by my comment that they need to be eliminated by any means possible.

You can take that word for whatever you think it means, but they have to be gone. Serial killers get death sentences. Hamas is simply an organization of serial killers.
__________________
ouizy is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 12:57 PM   #52
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Just east of Brunoville..
Posts: 50
Local Time: 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I hear this quite often, but find no evidence to support such a theory. Hammas wants Israel gone, not $$$.
Yes.
However the average Palestinian will not rise up against Hamas.
If the Palestinians saw the USA in a different light instead of the seeing the USA only Pro Israel.
The way to do is is w/broad bold steps to show that the USA is only on the side of peaceful people including Palestinians.
If Palestinian schools universities hospitals were being paid for by the USA, the average Palestinian would not feel so loyal to Hamas then perhaps.

Atticus
__________________
the hand that leads you
is the hand that
will push you away..
Atticus Finch is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 07:10 PM   #53
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stow, MA, USA
Posts: 256
Local Time: 03:30 AM
Well said Atticus, this is what I'm trying to say...


Ouizy and wolfwill, how many Americans are in the West Bank keeping track of all the injustice... Why not find a Palestinian and ask for thier story... My friend, who just moved here a while ago, her name is Annan, and this women can tell you a list of injustice that had happend right before her eyes.... YOu guys are sooo sure of yourself that no injustice happens to them, I really do pity you lot.... open your eyes....

I pray, and I keep on saying this, that less innocent civilians are killed in this conflict.... But, people have to start giving some "real" attention to this conflict.. People can't try and get themselves out so easily by assuming that one is at fault for all this...
__________________
Amna is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 10:13 PM   #54
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 09:30 PM

Although I'm not sure how succesful it would be (due to the extreme situation that has built up inthe past few years), I do agree you make some good suggestions, Atticus.

But I must ask: what is an attorney from rural Maycomb (Monroeville), Alabama doing in Dublin City, Ireland, commenting ont he affairs of the world?

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 06-23-2003, 10:59 PM   #55
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stow, MA, USA
Posts: 256
Local Time: 03:30 AM
Read this please, this is from Amnesty International:

"Some 2,000 Palestinians have been killed, most of them unlawfully, by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), who routinely use F16 fighter jets, helicopter gunships and tanks to bomb and shell densely populated Palestinian residential areas. The victims included some 350 children and some 90 individuals killed in targeted state assassinations.

In the same period Palestinian armed groups have killed more than 700 Israelis, some 480 of them civilians, including some 90 children. The victims were killed in deliberate attacks, including frequent suicide bombings in buses, restaurants and other places, which specifically targeted families and other civilians."

WHY CAN'T NGO'S ETC. HELP??????????

"In this respect the international community has failed the Palestinian and Israeli victims, whose human rights have been neglected in the pursuit of a "peace and security" formula which, if achieved, cannot be durable unless based on respect for the fundamental human rights of all. As the situation continues to worsen the need for steps to be taken becomes more pressing. AI has repeatedly called for international human rights monitors to be sent to Israel and the Occupied Territories. The call has been echoed by Palestinian, Israeli and international NGOs and has been widely supported at the international level, including by the UN and EU, but the international community has failed to act in the face of ISRAEL'S REJECTION OF THE PRUPOSAL. AI does not claim that human rights observers can bring the solution to all the problems in this complex situation. However, the presence of international monitors could contribute to saving Palestinian and Israeli lives. It is not too late to make amends for past failures. "

If organisations such as AI and other NGO's could place themselves in Israel and West Bank, maybe they could also help with efforts in bringing peace???? But, I'm wondering, why won't Israeli gov't let this happen??? Why can't Red Cross and other health systems be implemented??? Damn, I"ve got so many questions...
__________________
Amna is offline  
Old 06-24-2003, 01:38 PM   #56
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
ouizy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: s p o r a t i c
Posts: 3,788
Local Time: 10:30 PM
Quote:
guys are sooo sure of yourself that no injustice happens to them, I really do pity you lot.... open your eyes.... [/B]
Amna,

Please do not misconstrue this thread, and please do not take this personally.

This thread is about the fact that a terrorist organization has put itself in the middle of peace process negotiations between a State, and a group of people who wish to become a state.

Of course I understand that there is suffering among the Palestinians, I never said there wasn't.

I do understand, also of friends in Israel who are petrified of going on a bus to school, to a store for groceries, or out to dinner on a weekend for fear of being blown up by said terrorist group.

Please do not pity me as you do not know me, nor have any reason to pity me, just understand what the argument is here, then let's continue.
__________________
ouizy is offline  
Old 06-24-2003, 01:48 PM   #57
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stow, MA, USA
Posts: 256
Local Time: 03:30 AM
Ouizy, understand this though, I'm not taking this personally, but I do not understand, and I am boggled by the fact that you lot don't see the other side to this... If you truly understood, or had any feeling for those who are suffering in the West Bank, then you would be more careful in what you said... I am not supporting any terror org., and I agree that they should be dismanteled, but I'm only giving a stratedgy that has never been used before; a strategy that focuses more on solving the problem, rather then killing a certain number of people, which really doesnt' solve the problem...

I don't know who you are, however, i do pity the fact that you are not willing to look further into this conflict...
__________________
Amna is offline  
Old 06-24-2003, 05:57 PM   #58
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 633
Local Time: 03:30 AM
Amna, please answer the folling questions:

1. As long as Hamaas exists, will they ever stop killing innocent Israelis?

2. If answer to #1 is no, then what do you do with them?

3. If answer to #1 is yes, then please explain how they will just stop killing after being trained to hate and kill their entire lives.

Thank you.
__________________
wolfwill23 is offline  
Old 06-24-2003, 06:34 PM   #59
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stow, MA, USA
Posts: 256
Local Time: 03:30 AM
Again, I'm really getting tired of answering the same question, over and over again... But here it goes... AND PLEASE READ WHAT I WROTE, AND TAKE A MINUTE TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING... I might have a few grammer errors, since i'm at work right now, i feel very rushed..


as long as Hamas exist, or as long as people in general exist, killings will sadly never end... Killing is amongst us.... As long as Hamas exist, killings of innocent Israelis will probably continue (but the numbers could be less, if both gov't acted upon it), as long as the Sharon controled IDF exists, yes, ther will be killings of innocent Palestinians (but the numbers could be less, if both gov't acted upon it)..

HAMAS will exist for a very long time, Hamas is not a specific number of people, this organization is based on an ideology... This organization has gotten more youth to join, only b/c these youth have no schools to attend and they live in complete opression... So, Hamas, the org., takes these kids and supposably gives them something to look forward 2... Heaven . These kids have nothing to lose, they have already lost everything around them, they see this org. as an only hope.

I truly believe, that who ever instructs Hamas, should be locked up for good, or yes, he deserves death... But, what will this accomplish, someone else will decide to take continue hamas, or make another one... As long as Hamas creates an excuse to operate, then yes, peoople will join this organization... But, if substantial impovement is given in the territory, and I mean schools built, hospitals built, etc. etc. (these facilities being built by the help of outsiders (literally being built)), then these kids will see that their is more to live for, and that their are other people who care, americans who care...

The Road to Peace, is one of the many other peace treaties given, and I hope this one works... But before planning it, Americans' and other countries need to give the Palestinians proof that this will follow through... Wether this proof is shown through giving Red Cross aid, or letting organizations such as Amnesty into this area... The Palestinian government has no solid assets to rely on, they need help to rebuild themselves b4 they can help rebuild the West Bank... So, it is probably best that some immediate help be given to the Palestinians, this way, Hamas will surely be dismantled.. And if Hamas is dismantled, then, I beleive that the Israelis will live more peacefully.. As for attacks, before occupation had occured, were their any attacks????? From my research, I believe not....
__________________
Amna is offline  
Old 06-25-2003, 01:26 PM   #60
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
ouizy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: s p o r a t i c
Posts: 3,788
Local Time: 10:30 PM
Amna,

I can only speak for myself, but I have to say I understand and do not totally disagree with your ideas for peace, nor do I disagree that there have been injustices on both sides.

My only contention here is that I started this thread with the idea that negotiations with terror groups are ridiculous.

That said, today the three major Palestinian terror groups; Hamas, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, and Islamic Jihad have agreed to a three month cease-fire.

Now this is good news for the Israelis who will not have to worry about being blown up while buying a banana, and it is fairly good news for the "peace process," but I stand by my thought that this should have no bearing on negotiations between the Palestinians and the Israelis. These are criminals, killers, and animals.

You do not negotiate with hate groups. I am trying to think of a good example, and I forgot which state it is, but one of the southern states still has on its flag the original graphic from the Confederacy. There is debate about taking it off the flag. Now imagine if during the negotiations the Ku Klux Klan was on one side of the barganing table. They are a hate group who would love to see that image remain on the flag as to some it represents all that was wrong in this country regarding slavery. It makes no sense.

I say congratualtions to the Israelis for getting the three month window to be able to leave their houses without the fear of bombs, but I will be damned before I thank Hamas, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Islamic Jihad for doing what they did.

Now it is time to move along the process and each side will have to make some tough descisions and give up some ground so there can be a Palestinian State and freedom from terrorism and oppression in that region.
__________________

__________________
ouizy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com