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Old 08-19-2004, 10:19 PM   #16
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I do not see any point in testing shampoo or lotion on rabbits to see if it will hurt your eyes or not. Chances are, it will, so just say, don't let it get in your eyes, and that should cover it all!
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:42 PM   #17
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That isn't why they test it. Obviously it is common sense not to get shampoo in your eyes, because it is basic enough that it will sting regardless

They test it to see how abrasive the chemicals are to your skin or your scalp. If you were buying a shampoo that said "May burn your scalp resulting in hair loss and hair shaft damage" do you seriously mean to tell me you would buy it and take that chance?
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Old 08-20-2004, 08:52 AM   #18
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Haven't we been making shampoos long enough to know from experience which chemicals burn and which ones don't? Aren't they basically the same formulas over again with different colors and fragrances added?
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Old 08-20-2004, 09:08 AM   #19
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Is PETA about mistreatment or an anti science mob?
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Old 08-20-2004, 09:17 AM   #20
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PETA turns me off. I'm all for the ethical treatment of animals, but PETA's methods
cross the line a lot.
Also not surprised Paul McCartney is distancing himself from that organization.
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Old 08-20-2004, 09:44 AM   #21
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I still believe animal research is wrong. There are products on the market which are not tested on animals. For example, Berts Bees products are all natural and not tested on animals.
Also, scientists in research often try to justify research on animals because they want to continue to get funding. Being that they are supposed to be so intelligent, why cant they come up with a better way?
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Old 08-20-2004, 10:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sheltie
I support PETA on their views regarding animal research. I think any kind of animal research is wrong and not needed. In todays tech advanced society, I am sure there are other ways to conduct research. I cant say what ways because I am not a scientist, but I am sure it can be done.
I do not support any groups such as the American Cancer Society, March of Dimes, or any group which uses animal research.
Its my personal choice and I understand everyone does not feel that way. However, that is the way I feel and what I believe to be humane as well as responsible.
Well I can say with certainty that my cat was used for a demonstration in a research lab and he came out just fine. Not only that, but now the people who watched the demonstration know how to save the life of a baby. You say you don't know of another way to do the research b/c you're not a scientist, here's the answer: a cat's throat is the same size as a human baby's so that's why they use a cat to teach med students how to intubate children. If you don't support this type of animal research, then when your child is sick and dying you can tell the doctor he's not allowed to use a tube. I bet there's hardly any drugs or medical products or even cosmetics out there that weren't in some way tested with animals. I don't think people who are absolutely against animal research have any clue how many products they use daily that were tested with animals. I love animals, but I can't feel more sorry for the life of a few bunnies than millions of sick and dying people all over the world. I respect your opinion, but I think you might feel differently if you ever had cancer or AIDS or another life threatening condition.
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Old 08-20-2004, 10:32 AM   #23
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PETA believes that animals deserve the most basic rights-consideration of their own best interests regardless of whether they are useful to humans. Like you, they are capable of suffering and have interests in leading their own lives. Therefore, they are not ours to use- for food, clothing, entertainment , or experimentation, or for any other reason.

Visit www.PETA.org
Click on living and you will be provided with a list of products and companies that do not use animal research.
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Old 08-20-2004, 11:23 AM   #24
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Whether I agree with PETA's mission or not, I can't give my support to an organization that destroys and vandalizes other people's property to get their message out.
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Old 08-20-2004, 02:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sheltie
Therefore, they are not ours to use- for food, clothing, entertainment , or experimentation, or for any other reason.

I don't want to get into a religious debate, but I guess my response is that I believe mankind was created in the image of God and animals were not. I do not support cruelty or unnecessary use of animal experimentation, but when it comes down to curing cancer, preventing AIDS, etc, I just don't believe animals have the same rights as humans.

And like BAW said, I'd give PETA more respect and maybe show some interest in their cause if they didn't trade one right for another and literally destroy someone else's cause.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:10 PM   #26
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I don't think it necessarily has to come down to a religious debate. I think humans have the "right" to eat animals simply because we are at the top of the food chain. Does a bear have the "right" to eat a poor defenseless salmon? Does a lioness have the "right" to eat a zebra?

I respect anyone who feels that they do not want to eat animals or use them for clothing. That's their decision. But when they start telling me that I shouldn't either then I'd have to ask them for evidence to back that up.

This is not to say that people shouldn't treat animals better. Corporate farms are terrible places for animals to live, and should be run in ways that show more respect for the animals. In that respect, I do agree with PETA.

Regarding animal testing ... I don't think that any researcher that uses animals for testing particularly enjoys hurting animals. But I look at it this way, would I rather have them test out a new vaccine on a bunny, or me and my family? Cruel or no, I put my family and most other people at a higher level than a bunny.

This was ramble-ey.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:26 PM   #27
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Animal testing gets far out of hand when much of it is done unnecessarily or excessively, especially in cases where holding onto funding is the main objective and not the cure for any disease. There have also been cases where peoples' pets were being stolen and sold to research labs for money. The reasoning behind stealing pets as opposed to using pound animals was that they were more docile, intelligent and worked better with humans. Some of these beloved dogs and cats suffered terribly as hideous operations and dissections were performed on them while still alive in the name of science. I don't know where to begin to look for links to this, but I have heard so much about it I don't doubt it. Not every bit of animal research is saving someone's life from a dreaded disease. A lot of it is the useless and cruel waste of life that no innocent creature should have to suffer. I have read many reports of trivial tests causing many animals much torture. I have also seen reports of people locating their lost dogs after having been in one of those labs and the sad condition they were in. Others were too late and were appalled at the way their pet had suffered and died. Some labs offered as much as $300 for a tame, intelligent large breed dog. They may not have known where the dogs came from, and they may not have encouraged or supported the stealing, but I don't think they asked any questions either. It was a big racket, and may still be for all I know. But I haven't heard any stories on this in several years.

Do the scientists want to hurt the animal, I don't even think that's a question. I don't believe they look at it with that kind of emotion and reach a point where they don't think about it. They have become so desensitised to it it's no more than changing shoes to them. It's the same as the way doctors and medical school students are able to handle such disturbing and grosteque situations that would put an ordinary person under the table. They look at it a different way. But in that way they lose all feeling for the animal and look at it as a thing.
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:53 PM   #28
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Anecdotal evedence is nice, but completely unprovable. And are you suggesting that all animal tests are run this way? And if yes, then wouldn't the solution be to place some restrictions on testing rather than just banning it outright?

You're making a lot of unfounded claims about what animal research is really all about. I'd be more inclined to believe you if you presented some evidence.
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Old 08-20-2004, 04:40 PM   #29
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PETA lives by their own morals and they are horribly inconsistent.
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Old 08-20-2004, 05:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
Anecdotal evedence is nice, but completely unprovable. And are you suggesting that all animal tests are run this way? And if yes, then wouldn't the solution be to place some restrictions on testing rather than just banning it outright?

You're making a lot of unfounded claims about what animal research is really all about. I'd be more inclined to believe you if you presented some evidence.
I knew that was coming, that's why I said I had no idea where to look for links to this, or even what to google it under, and honestly I don't have several hours to figure it out. I have seen these stories on TV, read them in publications complete with pictures, and heard first hand accounts. It has happened. As a matter of fact several years ago it was such common knowledge that whenever someone's pet went missing this was the first thing they feared. Most animal orgainizations will tell you to screen who you give a 'free' pet to as this is also a common way labs are supplied besides the stealing.

No, of course I'm not saying 'all' experiments are using pets gotten under false pretenses, but it happens, it has happened, and if you want to call me a liar and disregard this that's your stupidity. You can take hours to google for the story, I don't have time and I don't have to prove it to you.
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