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Old 01-25-2004, 11:22 AM   #1
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I just realized something

Okay I confess, I haven't paid much attention to the war. Stuff like this upsets me so if I can't change it I'd rather not know. But for all the rhetoric about liberation and weapons of mass destruction and the war on terror, when you look at it in a basic and historical sense, this is what happened:

My country INVADED another sovereign country. We TOOK THEM OVER. We OUSTED their government. We are OCCCUPYING their territory. We CONTROL it and will probably INSTALL A PUPPET GOVERNMENT.

And that is scary.

Yes Iraq was bad and Saddam was evil. But others like North Korea who are more evil were ignored? Also I don't accept the link to Bin Laden since Saddam was secular and the gung ho Islamic types didn't even like him. I supported an attack on Afghanistan to look for Al-Queida as a matter of honor. We were attacked on our own land and we can't let that go or everyone will think we won't act and they'll do it too. As much as I hate war as long as stuff like that happens some retaliation is necessary. But what happened in Iraq just looks stupid and wrong and I'm embarrassed as to how history will record it.
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Old 01-25-2004, 01:41 PM   #2
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there is no way out

just relax and go with a flow , it was always like this , war means business and business means war .
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Old 01-25-2004, 01:42 PM   #3
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Welcome to FYM...I don't think I've seen you here before? I hope you enjoy joining in the discussions here.

I think there are a lot of people who feel the same way as you. People who supported the Afghanistan war because they thought it was necessary to break up a terrorist group, but who then found it hard to believe what the Bush administration was saying about Saddam's supposed links to bin Laden. People who are now looking at Iraq, asking why WMD haven't been found and feeling that their government lied to them when they asked them to support the war. People who find it hard to stomach the fact that their country is now occupying another country and as you said will in all likelihood install a puppet regime when they leave. And yes, people who recognise that Saddam was an evil dictator, but who wonder why their government went after him while ignoring atrocities going on in other countries across the world.

I know you said you'd rather not know about stuff like this if you can't change it, but firstly, even though none of us could stop the war going ahead (although some of us, mentioning no names, found themselves working 18 hours a day campaigning against it ) that doesn't mean it was pointless to try. Secondly, what we can do, even if we couldn't stop the war going ahead, is to exercise our democratic right to reject those politicians who supported this war. We can vote against the politicians who supported it at the next election, we can join campaigns for candidates who opposed the war. We live in a democracy, so being aware of the issues and ready to take part in a democratic process is vital, even when being aware of the issues seems to do nothing more than make you absolutely FURIOUS that the people you helped to elect have acted in ways that disgust you. Sorry if any of that sounded horribly patronising, I didn't intend that.
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Old 01-25-2004, 07:09 PM   #4
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i also am very upset about this war, but i'm not gonna relax and just go with the flow. i love politics because you can actually DO something if an issue gets you upset. you may not always win, but the fact in knowing you tried to change things for the better is so wonderful.
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Old 01-25-2004, 07:40 PM   #5
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Normal

i like Kerry very much , how's his health btw ??? president is supposed to be a healthy man ( that's GW very good quality ) u know , :
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Old 01-25-2004, 08:51 PM   #6
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he's VERY healthy, the other day he was playing in a hockey game....he's very smooth on the ice.
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2andPolitix
he's VERY healthy, the other day he was playing in a hockey game....he's very smooth on the ice.
Oh, my.......must see this guy skate.
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:30 PM   #8
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Re: I just realized something

Quote:
Originally posted by Green Light 711
Okay I confess, I haven't paid much attention to the war. Stuff like this upsets me so if I can't change it I'd rather not know. But for all the rhetoric about liberation and weapons of mass destruction and the war on terror, when you look at it in a basic and historical sense, this is what happened:

My country INVADED another sovereign country. We TOOK THEM OVER. We OUSTED their government. We are OCCCUPYING their territory. We CONTROL it and will probably INSTALL A PUPPET GOVERNMENT.

And that is scary.

Yes Iraq was bad and Saddam was evil. But others like North Korea who are more evil were ignored? Also I don't accept the link to Bin Laden since Saddam was secular and the gung ho Islamic types didn't even like him. I supported an attack on Afghanistan to look for Al-Queida as a matter of honor. We were attacked on our own land and we can't let that go or everyone will think we won't act and they'll do it too. As much as I hate war as long as stuff like that happens some retaliation is necessary. But what happened in Iraq just looks stupid and wrong and I'm embarrassed as to how history will record it.
This stuff scares me. I hated Saddam, but I don't like us running puppet governments. That's what al-Sistani is trying to stop in Iraq. The Sunnis are being a pain in the asses of the Shia because Shias are 60% of the population in Iraq and they want direct votes. Screw these caucus things--they are to keep the privileges the Sunnis had under Saddam in place. Yes, Saddam was secular; bin Laden called him an "infidel". Bin Laden is a Wahhabist from Saudi Arabia, they think secular government is "infidel". Sunnis are only one-third of the population of Iraq, they should let the Shias vote, dammit.
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Old 02-07-2004, 09:05 AM   #9
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Re: I just realized something

Quote:
Originally posted by Green Light 711
Okay I confess, I haven't paid much attention to the war. Stuff like this upsets me so if I can't change it I'd rather not know. But for all the rhetoric about liberation and weapons of mass destruction and the war on terror, when you look at it in a basic and historical sense, this is what happened:

My country INVADED another sovereign country. We TOOK THEM OVER. We OUSTED their government. We are OCCCUPYING their territory. We CONTROL it and will probably INSTALL A PUPPET GOVERNMENT.

And that is scary.

Yes Iraq was bad and Saddam was evil. But others like North Korea who are more evil were ignored? Also I don't accept the link to Bin Laden since Saddam was secular and the gung ho Islamic types didn't even like him. I supported an attack on Afghanistan to look for Al-Queida as a matter of honor. We were attacked on our own land and we can't let that go or everyone will think we won't act and they'll do it too. As much as I hate war as long as stuff like that happens some retaliation is necessary. But what happened in Iraq just looks stupid and wrong and I'm embarrassed as to how history will record it.
Iraq was a easy traget, esp when you compare it with North-Korea but i agree,..

North - Korea has 2 million good armed and trained army. All north-koreans are brianwashed and think the western world are devils. The Iraqi people had some contacts outside but the Korean people are totaly isolated. The most idiotic thing is, North-Korea has chemical weapons and they are testing it on humans ( who are nicely stored away in concentration camps )

If a north-korean get arrested, his family get arrested also ( into the third generation ) and the 5 families who are living get arrested also. But, North- korea has no natural resourses so it is not a intersting place to go ( A liberatet North - Korea would never be able to pay back the costs of war ) Another big reason to leave Norht-Korea alone is the fact the nobody is waiting for 22 million brainwashed, poor, confused and poor human biengs. They south-korean minster of north-koran/south-korean affairs said, we are not waiting for that kind of people, they would bring a lot of problems with them. And that is the reason why we do not put the human rights issue on the agenda,....

So, South-Korea do not want to change this, the chinees do not want to change this ( they even send back the people who are able to get out of North-korea ) and the real willpower in the western world to change it, is far, far, far away. Maybe we should drop some nuclear bombs on the concentration camps to end the torture, hunger and abbuse for those poor humans who are not beter off as test rats.

...and in the programm on BBC1 ( this world ) a former chief of security of camp 22 said, we did a test with a chemical on a whole family, and i was moved by the fact that the parents gave mouth on mouth breath to try to save the children.


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