I have just lost a ton of respect for Rush.... - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-17-2002, 07:23 PM   #46
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
Rush's comments about Bono don't offend me. They're stupid, but relatively benign.
It's his tendency to make inflammatory racist remarks that offend me.
I'd definitely like to see you list any racist remarks he has made.
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Old 03-17-2002, 07:59 PM   #47
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I wish to continue to focus on the baseless accusations of fascism, but this comment must not go unnoticed:

Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
If he wishes to keep secrets and pass legislation without approval of Congress under the guise of "national security" and the "war on terrorism," he should expect such criticism. But that's right...Republicans are for "freedom."
What secrets? What legislation?

The only things I can think of is the documents Cheney's trying to protect and the once-secret contingency plans should terrorists attack Washington, D.C.

First the contingency plans: even when they are not publically well known, those contingency plans would have to follow Constitutional procedures. But it's bad that such plans aren't public knowledge?

Well, if they told the press, and Time Magazine had maps and diagrams of the contingency plans, what's to stop terrorists from accessing the information? NOTHING.

And as to Cheney's documents, I know: Nixon used the same reasoning. But are you also saying that there should be NO such level of even temporary confidentiality?

As per the "legislation without Congressional approval", I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about.

But if you *really* want to discuss unconstitutional legislation, let's discuss the Environmental Protection Agency, which can - on a whim - declare a species endangered, declare private property to be wetlands, and destroy a property's value without ANY compensation.

Or look at the Securities and Exchange Commission, which was able to overturn Congress and grant an exception to the Investment Company Act of 1940, an exception that allowed the debacle that is Enron.

Own up to the truth, Melon: you say I'm virtually the president of the Rush fan club (indicating a bias I do not deny), yet you cannot admit your own biases against Republicans, particularly President Bush.
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Old 03-18-2002, 02:23 PM   #48
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[quote]Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
Rush's comments about Bono don't offend me. They're stupid, but relatively benign.
It's his tendency to make inflammatory racist remarks that offend me.
Quote:
I'd definitely like to see you list any racist remarks he has made.
Published on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 in the Los Angeles Times

Can A Man Who Has A Problem With People Of Color Be A Color Commentator On 'Monday Night Football'? by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall

Talk radio host Rush Limbaugh may be returning to television. He recently auditioned for a job as color commentator on ABC-TV's "Monday Night Football." The tryout followed weeks of self-promotion by the self-styled "truth detector" to the millions who listen daily to his syndicated radio show on about 600 stations.

Limbaugh's audition is stirring controversy. Sports columnist Thomas Boswell quipped that if Limbaugh joins "Monday Night Football," then baseball's game of the week broadcasters might "team up with John Rocker." Veteran sportswriter Michael Wilbon, who is black, indicated a boycott might result: "If Rush Limbaugh is put in that booth, I will NOT listen to the broadcast," he wrote in a Washington Post Internet chat session. "His views on people like me are well documented. . . . There are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, who feel the same way I do."

If ABC-TV hires Limbaugh, it's not clear a boycott would materialize. What is clear is that his expressed views on racial matters--from the spiteful to the sophomoric--would make him an odd color commentator. Indeed, CBS Sports dismissed Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder for ignorant racial remarks less derisive than some of Limbaugh's.

A decade ago, after becoming nationally syndicated, Limbaugh mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all newspaper composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?" In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when director Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren be given time off from school to see his film "Malcolm X": "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."

In a similar vein, here is Limbaugh's mocking take on the National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People, a group with a 90-year commitment to nonviolence: "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-Ill.) was in the U.S. Senate--the first black woman ever elected to that body--Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her. Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect--substituting "ax" for "ask"--when discussing black leaders.

Such quotes and antics--many compiled by Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting, or FAIR, for our 1995 book--offer a whiff of Limbaugh's racial sensibility. So does his claim that racism in the United States "is fueled primarily by the rantings and ravings" of people like Jesse Jackson. Or his ugly reference two years ago to the father of Madonna's first child, a Latino, as "a gang-member type guy"--although he had no gang background.

In 1994, Limbaugh mocked St. Louis for building a rail line to East St. Louis "where nobody goes." East St. Louis is home to roughly 40,000 residents, 98% of whom are African Americans. One of those 40,000 "nobodies" is NFL linebacker Bryan Cox.

Once, in response to a caller arguing that black people need to be heard, Limbaugh responded: "They are 12% of the population. Who the hell cares?" That's not an unusual response for a talk radio host playing to an audience of "angry white males." It may not play so well among National Football League players, 70% of whom are African American.

Compared to some talk radio hosts, racism is not central to Rush Limbaugh's shtick. There has been, however, a pattern of commentary indicating his willingness to exploit prejudice against blacks to further his on-air arguments.

ABC-TV has the right to hire Limbaugh, even at the risk of alienating members of its audience. ("Monday Night Football" is the second-most watched TV show in black households.) Thrust into the world of pro football where Limbaugh himself would be something of a racial minority, is it possible that he'd rise above his history of racial bigotry and insensitivity? Not likely.

When all is said and done, the athletes are the key players on "Monday Night Football." It would be great to know how they'd feel about a color man who seems to have trouble with people of color.






[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 03-18-2002).]
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Old 03-18-2002, 04:04 PM   #49
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Joyfulgirl,

Or course you are right.

Any clear thinking, rational person hears the mean spirited and intolerant statements Rush continues to make.


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Old 03-18-2002, 06:34 PM   #50
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"Have you ever noticed how all newspaper composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

How exactly is this racist?

Anyone?

In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when director Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren be given time off from school to see his film "Malcolm X": "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out.

Let us look again at the situation: a radically liberal director urging that black schoolchildren be given a day off from school to watch a film about a leader that ADVOCATED VIOLENCE in the name of a political cause.

(First, isn't Spike Lee a racist for wanting JUST black kids to be given a day off? Also, isn't it absurd to be GIVEN a day off from school when movies theaters are open at night and on weekends?)

And comments like this do not exist in a vacuum. Lee's movie came out in November of 1992. Anybody remember what happened in late April of 1992?

THAT'S RIGHT. THE L.A. RIOTS.

For those with apparently short-term memories, thugs of all races took the opportunity of an unpopular sentence to riot, loot, and steal VCRs. It was done under the banner of "No justice, no peace," and the threat that has hung over EVERY major race-related case since has been clear: if the thugs don't get the sentence they like (be it the King civil trial, the Reginald Denny trial, or O.J.), the city will burn. It was an opportunity for thugs to blackmail the U.S. judicial system AND upgrade their home stereo - AND IT WAS TAKEN SERIOUSLY by the mainstream press, who sought to "understand" the feelings of the looters.

Seven months later, Spike Lee released a movie about a man who advocates such violenc, and Lee "urged that black schoolchildren be given time off from school to see his film." And Rush is a RACIST for objecting?

Explain that one.

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

I'd like to see the context for this one. If this comment also appeared around post-riots, the NAALCP event could very well be a bone-headed attempt to capitalize politically on the looting.

Rush hasn't said anything like this often, and I'm very wary of comments given with no context whatsoever.

The organization may very well have a "a 90-year commitment to nonviolence", but if they broke that pledge even for an instant, in the wake of some riot or another, how is Rush a racist for criticizing them for it?

When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-Ill.) was in the U.S. Senate--the first black woman ever elected to that body--Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her. Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect--substituting "ax" for "ask"--when discussing black leaders.

From National Review Online:

"In 1995, the Justice Department twice turned down requests by the IRS criminal tax division seeking subpoena authority to pursue its investigation of Moseley-Braun. In its first request, the IRS told the Justice Department that it had evidence of bank fraud, bribery, and other crimes dating back to Moseley-Braun's stint as Cook County's recorder of deeds. In its second request, the IRS reported that Moseley-Braun and her 1992 Senate campaign manager (and ex-fiancé) may have used more than $280,000 in political donations for personal expenses. The IRS found evidence that the pair had spent $70,000 on designer clothes, $64,000 on travel to Hawaii, Europe, and Africa, $18,000 on jewelry, $12,000 on stereo equipment, and $25,000 for two Jeeps...

"And that's not all. During her 1992 campaign, evidence surfaced that Moseley-Braun had committed Medicaid fraud. Three years earlier, she and her siblings had split a $28,750 inheritance owed to her mother, who, as a Medicaid patient in a nursing home, should have used the money to pay for her care. Moseley-Braun attributed the incident to a misunderstanding, and later paid $15,239 to reimburse the state. Illinois's Democratic attorney general declined to pursue the case, and although Republican governor Jim Edgar declared that 'someone broke the law,' he couldn't bring himself to say who exactly that might be. Perhaps he didn't have to. Despite her easy win against a weak Republican candidate in 1992, 56 percent of the voters doubted her honesty.

"Moseley-Braun has escaped serious inquiry by boldly intimidating anyone who dares ask uncomfortable questions. She frequently complains about being held to a double standard owing to her race and sex. At one point during her reelection campaign, she flatly declared she wouldn't answer any questions about her use of campaign funds, or the activities of her former fiancé.

"When George Will wrote a column in 1998 that detailed the charges she had faced, she likened him to a Ku Klux Klansman, who 'can just take his hood and go back to wherever he came from.' If George Will elicited such a response (George Will!), what hope is there for Jesse Helms's attempt to get some long-overdue answers?"

And, if I remember correctly, one of her scandals involved low-rent housing, which first prompted Rush's use of "Movin' On Up".

The bottom line is that Rush's problems with her has been that she's very liberal and plagued with questions about her ethics (or lack thereof).

But BECAUSE she's black (and a woman, and the first black female Senator!), it's RACIST to criticize her?

And in reference to "ax" instead of "ask", Rush has said "ax" in various contexts, but EVEN if you can link the use of the phrase to civil rights leaders, he also personally imitates (and exaggerates) the voices of Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, and I believe Fritz Hollings - all WHITE MEN.

Or his ugly reference two years ago to the father of Madonna's first child, a Latino, as "a gang-member type guy"--although he had no gang background.

He may have *actually* appeared to look like a "gang-member type" (unlike, say, Ricky Martin; as far as I know, Rush as never said HE looked like a gang member). So I ask again: how exactly is this racist?

In 1994, Limbaugh mocked St. Louis for building a rail line to East St. Louis "where nobody goes." East St. Louis is home to roughly 40,000 residents, 98% of whom are African Americans. One of those 40,000 "nobodies" is NFL linebacker Bryan Cox.

Rougly 40,000 residents - in a metropolitan area of 2.4 MILLION. Or, in other words, 1.7 percent of the population.

One-point-seven percent.

To say that "nobody" goes to such an area is accurate, unless the Rams, Cardnials, or Jazz play in the area; and the comment probably has little to do with race.

Again, the burden is on you to point out the actual racism.

Once, in response to a caller arguing that black people need to be heard, Limbaugh responded: "They are 12% of the population. Who the hell cares?"

And THIS is in response to the fact that, for a minority that's not significantly larger than this country's Hispanic or Jewish populations, their leadership already has a disproportionate amount of political power and constantly complains to attain more.

Again, context counts, and it's been conveniently left out.


So. Here we have a handful of comments, the majority of which have no context or go on the assumption that it's INHERENTLY racist to criticize a member of a minority group (Spike Lee, Mosely-Braun, etc.).

THIS is "his tendency to make inflammatory racist remarks"? THIS is the "the mean spirited and intolerant statements" that "any clear thinking, rational person" can see?

That's absurd.

To FURTHER prove the absurdity, I have three names for you:

James Golden (a/k/a Bo Snerdly): he was Rush's first and most famous call screener, and he happens to be black.

Walter Williams: a conservative radio personality that subs for Rush when he's on vacation, and he also happens to be black.

And Clarence Thomas.

Thomas is the conservative Supreme Court Justice who Rush supported during his confirmation hearings (and the Anita Hill fiasco), and HE happens to be black.

More than that, Rush got married a few years back. Guess who performed the private ceremony?

SUPREME COURT JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS.
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Old 03-18-2002, 08:36 PM   #51
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Excellent responses, Achtung. People love to say "Rush is this, Rush is that". Then when asked what makes them think that, they say "Oh because so and so told me" or "I read it here" and they quote some liberal source (such as FAIR). Of course, the liberal sources they always quote pick and choose the lines they want, never telling the context. Anyone who has listened to Rush even a ouple of times knows that he uses sarcasm like crazy and that's there's always a point behind every thing he says.
Up until 99, I listed to Rush almost every day for years (I only quit because I stopped having such a long drive to work). I never once heard him say anything that would make me think he was even borderlining on being a racist.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 03-19-2002).]
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Old 03-18-2002, 09:10 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:

Veteran sportswriter Michael Wilbon, who is black, indicated a boycott might result: "If Rush Limbaugh is put in that booth, I will NOT listen to the broadcast," he wrote in a Washington Post Internet chat session. "His views on people like me are well documented. . . . There are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, who feel the same way I do."
Hahahaha.. I'm wary of ANY article that contains the Ri-cock-u-lous-ly Uncredible Michael Wilbon... This is the SAME Michael Wilbon who went at quite possibly Greater Lengths than Jesse Jackson does to Keep the Black man down to Charge Notre Dame with the 'JOB' of hiring TY WILLINGHAM as the 'FirsT' BLACK Coach to a Major Sports Program in the Nation.. NOt Because he was a skilled coach, not because he was the best man for the Job, but Because He was BLACK.. and It would be a great step forward for the Black Man... OK.. So He's Dumb Shit.. We can all accept that.. Hahaha...

BUUUUUT... The Florida Vacancy comes along.. Almost just as prestigious a Coaching Position in College Sports.. The opening left by the Venerable (To Some.. except his Quarterbacks) Steve Spurrier.. NOW.. Does Wilbon Go At the Huuuge Extreme Lengths... Where He Constipates himself into a coniption each time he gets air time about how FLORIDA Must Take this Opportunity to Make a Statement for the Black Man in the World.. NOOOOO HE Doesn't.

When asked About this, why He made no such Fuss with Florida as with Notre Dame.. His reply ..(to paraphrase)... "I Was Just too Tired from Fighting this Game with Notre Dame to do It Again.".. Hahaha... What a bag of shit.. 'Too Tired'.. What.. for the Two minutes at a time ESPN Will give you before they cut you off.. Well to go to an equally raving and ranting Lupica about Bob Knight at least.... Yah.. Pardon My Ass..

Also.. Any article that brushes with such topics as Racism while including the names of such Honorable figures such as Malcom X and The REVEREND.. Cough Cough... Jesse Jackson as reference points.. Throws itself into a South Carolina Rest Stop shitter Immediately.

Love,
L.Unplugged



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Old 03-19-2002, 11:09 AM   #53
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If you guys honestly cannot admit that these comments are racist, then I truly feel sorry for you and have nothing else to say.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
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Old 03-19-2002, 11:43 AM   #54
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Lovely way to slink out of explaining your position, or responding to MY astute observations.

The fact remains:

Rush Limbaugh criticizes and impugns the NAALCP* the same way he criticizes and impugns Greenpeace, PETA, NOW, NPR, the National Education Association, the National Endowment for the Arts, the ACLU, and the DNC. Or need I remind you of the theme song he's used for the Environmentalist Wacko Updates? "Born Free", drowned out by the sounds of gunfire, heavy artillery, and screaming wildlife.

(* NAALCP: The National Association for the Advancement of Liberal Colored People. When's the last time they've extended even any courtesy to Thomas Sowell or Clarence Thomas?)

And Rush criticizes and parodies Jesse Jackson and Carol Mosely-Braun the same way he criticizes and parodies Ted Kennedy, Tom Daschle, James Carville, Janet Reno, and Bill Clinton. Or need I remind you of THE WEEK Rush spent trying to decipher the spastic ramblings of Ted Kennedy?

I will re-emphasize: Rush Limbaugh criticizes and ridicules these people and organizations BECAUSE THEY ARE LIBERAL. It has nothing to do with race.

We can both agree that Rush makes fun of civil rights organizations and people that happen to be in minority groups; he ridicules people that happen to be black.

But, unless you can give any other explanation, it appears that you're saying he's critical BECAUSE they're black, or it's inherently racist to criticize people who happen to be black.

Now, through counterexamples of liberals he attacks the same way (Kennedy, Daschle) and blacks that he likes and defends (Thomas, Sowell, Williams), I believe I've THOROUGHLY dispelled the notion that he's attacking them BECAUSE of their race.

Again, you haven't addressed my counterexamples AT ALL, so I must assume that you concede my point and believe it irrelevent.

So, the only thing I can conclude is that you think it's racist to criticize AT ALL people who happen to be black.

The ultimate result of such a belief is that we shouldn't DARE criticize someone who's black - that we should change our behavior towards a person on the basis of their race.

THAT'S RACISM.
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Old 03-19-2002, 12:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
If you guys honestly cannot admit that these comments are racist, then I truly feel sorry for you and have nothing else to say.
You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
That's wonderful. Can't argue with the facts, so you resort to insults. You've probably never even heard a single Rush Limbaugh show. You probably have heard what your friends say about his show.
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Old 03-19-2002, 12:58 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
If you guys honestly cannot admit that these comments are racist, then I truly feel sorry for you and have nothing else to say.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
Hahaha.. That's a nice way to drop a good ol' F#ck You then bounce the hell out, all the while admitting that your article was just rendered not even Worthy of A Week's Stay in Dan Akroyd's Intestinal Track.

L.Unplugged

That's good though.. Bringing in the Weakest Link.. Hahaha.. Anne Robinson would be proud that at least someone still remembers who she is.


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Old 03-19-2002, 01:33 PM   #57
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What's the point? I can't believe these comments need explanation. The racism is SELF-EVIDENT. Nothing I can say will change your mind. You like this guy, you even ADMIRE him, which I find shocking, and I don't know why I even bothered to point out to you that maybe, just maybe, you might want to take a second look at him. But you're not interested. You just want to be RIGHT all the time and will never ever admit that anyone you admire could have actual faults, or maybe a point of view that even die hard conservatives might not want to align themselves with. Call me a cop out, call me a liberal which seems to be the worst thing you can think of a person, call me anything you want.

And by the way, not only have I listened to Rush, I've met the blubbering idiot, along with a long list of your idols. I used to work for his publisher.

[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 03-19-2002).]
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Old 03-19-2002, 01:59 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
And by the way, not only have I listened to Rush, I've met the blubbering idiot, along with a long list of your idols. I used to work for his publisher.
[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 03-19-2002).]
I'll ask you this question: If you've ever actually HEARD Rush say things that you consider racist, why didn't you tell us about those, rather than quoting from a liberal website known for its conservative-bashing? It would lend more credence to the idea that you actually based your statements on fact rather than hearsay.
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Old 03-19-2002, 02:04 PM   #59
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IT'S NOT SELF-EVIDENT.

Did you not read my responses to your article?

RUSH MAKES FUN OF ALL LIBERALS, regardless of race.

You weren't trying to "point out to you that maybe, just maybe, you might want to take a second look at him." You were trying to prove "his tendency to make inflammatory racist remarks."

So what proof did you offer? Anything YOU YOURSELF heard Rush say? No, you offer a silly little article that takes Rush completely out of context.

(And the article refers to Rush's audience as "angry white males." Isn't the article ITSELF racist AND sexist?)

I go over each and every point and re-establish context and make the point that Rush makes fun of all liberals.

Your response to THAT?

"If you guys honestly cannot admit that these comments are racist, then I truly feel sorry for you and have nothing else to say."

"I can't believe these comments need explanation. The racism is SELF-EVIDENT. Nothing I can say will change your mind."

Arrogant AND completely devoid of substance.

You say you can't change our minds. Well, why don't you TRY? Read my response and tell me where I'm wrong.

Tell me how Rush making fun of how Ted Kennedy talks ISN'T relevant, tell me how Clarence Thomas performing the ceremony at Rush's wedding DOESN'T matter.

I do want to be right, that's true - but we BOTH want to be right. The difference is, I back up my position with facts and logic. And it's damn time that you either do the same or shut the hell up.
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Old 03-19-2002, 02:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
But you're not interested. You just want to be RIGHT all the time and will never ever admit that anyone you admire could have actual faults, or maybe a point of view that even die hard conservatives might not want to align themselves with.
I think you are about 67 % correct on this statement

trying to convince that you are right has become more important in here then trying to find out what the exact truth might be

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