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Old 01-11-2004, 10:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soul Always
I don't know...I have a religion but I've always been on the outside of it because I don't belong inside it. I believe in it, but I just don't belong...I think it's because the people are so boring.

'Its better to be on the inside pissing out, than on the outside pissing in"
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:03 PM   #32
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


(sue4u2, I'm not really directing anything in this post at you or what you believe in, I'm just using what you said as a sort of starting point for what I want to say. Hope that's okay. )

I can't help but think of doing "whatever works for you" as almost the opposite of religion. To me, that is creating your own religion because you're saying that you'll accept certain elements of a religion, but you'll reject others depending on what's convenient for you. How can you know what to accept and what to reject? What do you base it on? If you're free to just ignore your religion's teachings on one subject, then how can you know that it's teachings on another subject are true? For instance, if a Christian decides they don't need to follow the Bible's teachings on a particular subject, then how can they know that what the Bible says about salvation is true? And if they can't know that is true then what foundation is left for their beliefs?

I think anyone who is a member of a particular religion is always going to struggle with and question some of its teachings, but if our solution to that is to just take what we like from a religion and ignore everything else, well...that certainly sounds like creating your own religion to me.
Conscience.

And, honestly, a lot of a religion's teachings are based on one person's or one culture's subjective interpretation and emphasis of certain Bibical passages. Most people are easily led to false conclusions in religion, mostly because the Bible, itself, is too boring for most people to read through, and, so they rely on single verses taken out of context or a minister's subjective interpretation.

Melon
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:06 PM   #33
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
This is a very broad topic with many points to discuss. I would only caution that the alternative to an "organized religion" is a self-created religion. I believe our knowledge of God must come from something outside of ourselves.

God is a spiritual being, therefore most things outside of you will detour your path, the only way to God is through your own soul. i brlieve at least
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:09 PM   #34
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Originally posted by melon


Conscience.

And, honestly, a lot of a religion's teachings are based on one person's or one culture's subjective interpretation and emphasis of certain Bibical passages. Most people are easily led to false conclusions in religion, mostly because the Bible, itself, is too boring for most people to read through, and, so they rely on single verses taken out of context or a minister's subjective interpretation.

Melon
"Even the devil can cite scriptures for his own purpose!"
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:09 PM   #35
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Originally posted by Basstrap
we justify the scriptures which place women is subservience to men by saying "times have changed"
could we not say the same for an issue like homosexuallity?
I just have a hard time coming to terms with the typical christian church who says that gay people are going straight to hell when they die whether they love Jesus or not.
Excellent point.

I hate hearing that from religious people, too, namely because...

Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap
Jesus taught compassion, he taught love, and he taught us to reserve judgement. I'd like to see more of these things
why do we feel like we have to be so quick to judge? it's not our place.
...of what you just said right here. Exactly right.

Also, melon made some interesting points, too.

Angela
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Old 01-12-2004, 08:13 AM   #36
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Are his claims true or false?

If you’ve been a U2 fan for any length of time, you tend to question and doubt MANY things about religious motivations. This is an inherent trait of most U2 fans. U2 have shown us in word and by example not to accept things at face value. We have an obligation to challenge those things that don’t seem to “feel” right. Pluralism, compassion and diversity seem to be the antagonist of organized religion.

This makes U2 fans very suspicious of “organized” religion and all the taboo that it encompasses. As U2 fans, we strive to be as inclusive as possible. No matter how much we may disagree. Although, there are some things that we need to investigate.

One thing you have to look at and analyze is the fact that Jesus made some very bold claims as to whom he was that cannot be easily dismissed. No matter who you are, you have to have some sort of strong opinion about him. His claims are either true or false.

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God (In Jewish tradition, to claim that you are someone’s son, means that you are claiming to be your father’s equal). Now some of you might want to admit that Jesus was a great teacher or maybe even a great prophet, but what kind of teacher runs around proclaiming that he is in fact the Son of God, if he actually is not whom he says he is?

Unfortunately, he has left us in quite a predicament. If he is NOT the Son of God, then he is a liar and not to be trusted as a great teacher or prophet. How can one be a good teacher or a good prophet if he is a liar? If his claims aren't true, then you have to consider him incredibly evil (for pointing needy people in the wrong direction) or just plain dumb (for saying things he had no clue about). On the other hand, if he is who he claimed to be, then we have a great responsibility to investigate his claims even further.

I point this out not to make you feel uncomfortable, but to point out the fact that Jesus was an incredibly compassionate and non-judgmental man. He was not easily provoked or offended. As a matter of fact, the ONLY thing he found offensive was the judgmental fundamentalists that were oppressing the masses for their own gain.

Jesus came to break the oppression that organized religion inflicted upon the world. He was a rebel. He came to show us compassion and humility, NOT how to shove an opinion down someone else’s throat! People were attracted to Jesus because he let people be their true selves around him. They didn’t have to pretend to be some goody two shoes in order to impress him. Can you imagine? Hanging out with someone who not only proclaimed to be God, but at the same time, was not shocked or horrified by the way you acted or lived out your life? He just wanted to get to know the REAL you, not someone who put up a façade to impress him.

Just something to think about...
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Old 01-12-2004, 08:39 AM   #37
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interesting discussion!

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
IMO, the matter of faith is something between God and a human heart and soul.


Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I really hope this isn't the typical Christian church and fortunately my own experience tells me that it's not. While I admit that a majority of Christians I know believe that homosexuality is a sin, I don't know anyone who's said that gay people are "going straight to hell." We can't know what will happen to anyone other than ourselves when they die and it disgusts me to hear people make comments like the one above.
You might be surprised. I had a (now ex) boyfriend tell me my parents were going to hell because they are Catholic and not born-again (like he was).

Quote:
Originally posted by A|catura
Jesus came to break the oppression that organized religion inflicted upon the world. He was a rebel. He came to show us compassion and humility, NOT how to shove an opinion down someone else’s throat! People were attracted to Jesus because he let people be their true selves around him. They didn’t have to pretend to be some goody two shoes in order to impress him. Can you imagine? Hanging out with someone who not only proclaimed to be God, but at the same time, was not shocked or horrified by the way you acted or lived out your life? He just wanted to get to know the REAL you, not someone who put up a façade to impress him.
A|catura, what a wonderful post. So much of it reminded me of a certain philosophy professor I had in college (brilliant man!). This was very well written and interesting. I love thinking/pondering Jesus' human qualities and His time on earth, and how he epitomized the tenant "Love your neighbor as yourself." It's such a powerful idea, the results of which can be beautiful.
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Old 01-12-2004, 09:43 AM   #38
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Wow, there are so many great posts here I can't even begin to comment on them individually or I'll be here all day (%&*&^$% work cutting into my Interference time!)

One great quote I heard, but can't remember where (if someone knows this quote and the source I'd love to know, cause I use this quote myself), but this guy was asked who he thought represented the true religion. Was it Catholic or Protestant? Jewish or Christian? Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist....etc and his reply was "The God I believe in is big enough to love all of us"
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Old 01-12-2004, 10:09 AM   #39
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Originally posted by LCK
... but this guy was asked who he thought represented the true religion. Was it Catholic or Protestant? Jewish or Christian? Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist....etc and his reply was "The God I believe in is big enough to love all of us"
That sounds like something Bono would say! lol! "... well, the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

That's an awesome quote! That's what it's all about.

If you click on my signature below, you will find a great resource for researching world religions. Religious tolerance is discussed and researched from ALL points of view. They are neutral, which is rare to find these days.
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Old 01-12-2004, 12:03 PM   #40
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Someone's been reading C.S. Lewis....
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Old 01-12-2004, 01:48 PM   #41
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Originally posted by A|catura


Exactly! If you truly seek love and peace, then nothing will ever shock or offend you.

Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

it's a shame that everyone can't live by these words and people argue over petty things
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Old 01-12-2004, 02:50 PM   #42
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Re: Are his claims true or false?

It is sad, isn't it? People read that bit and still think starting stupid wars over religious differences is a good idea. . Go figure.

Quote:
Originally posted by A|catura
One thing you have to look at and analyze is the fact that Jesus made some very bold claims as to whom he was that cannot be easily dismissed. No matter who you are, you have to have some sort of strong opinion about him. His claims are either true or false.

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God (In Jewish tradition, to claim that you are someone’s son, means that you are claiming to be your father’s equal). Now some of you might want to admit that Jesus was a great teacher or maybe even a great prophet, but what kind of teacher runs around proclaiming that he is in fact the Son of God, if he actually is not whom he says he is?

Unfortunately, he has left us in quite a predicament. If he is NOT the Son of God, then he is a liar and not to be trusted as a great teacher or prophet. How can one be a good teacher or a good prophet if he is a liar? If his claims aren't true, then you have to consider him incredibly evil (for pointing needy people in the wrong direction) or just plain dumb (for saying things he had no clue about). On the other hand, if he is who he claimed to be, then we have a great responsibility to investigate his claims even further.
Hmmm...interesting thoughts...

Quote:
Originally posted by A|catura
I point this out not to make you feel uncomfortable, but to point out the fact that Jesus was an incredibly compassionate and non-judgmental man. He was not easily provoked or offended. As a matter of fact, the ONLY thing he found offensive was the judgmental fundamentalists that were oppressing the masses for their own gain.

Jesus came to break the oppression that organized religion inflicted upon the world. He was a rebel. He came to show us compassion and humility, NOT how to shove an opinion down someone else’s throat! People were attracted to Jesus because he let people be their true selves around him. They didn’t have to pretend to be some goody two shoes in order to impress him. Can you imagine? Hanging out with someone who not only proclaimed to be God, but at the same time, was not shocked or horrified by the way you acted or lived out your life? He just wanted to get to know the REAL you, not someone who put up a façade to impress him.

Just something to think about...
EXACTLY! He would be incredibly shocked at how some of his followers act today. Saddened, too.

Also, LCK, I like that quote you shared. . Very cool answer. .

Angela
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Old 01-12-2004, 03:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by ABEL



it's a shame that everyone can't live by these words and people argue over petty things
It is a shame that today there is a lot of arguing over such small things:

Pray you now, forget and forgive.
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Old 01-15-2004, 12:40 PM   #44
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I think the Bible is written down by humans and inspired by God. So everything there is inspired by God, you have to see the text in context, maybe i don't understand some passages right now, but i can't ignore them and say "ok, they are obsolete today".
If i would do it that way it would be like wearing "sunglasses" while reading and accepting only things of God and the Bible which i like.

Klaus
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