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Old 02-17-2007, 10:52 AM   #106
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I was recently abroad (for academic purposes). There was a large group travelling from the law school and we had to occupy two hotels. They paired us up for the double rooms by gender. Upon arrival we realized that one hotel had 2 single beds pushed together, the other hotel had double beds.

Reaction from girls: none, we went to sleep even though half of us had never met our roommate before.

Reaction from guys in hotel 1: drop all their bags in the hall and immediately proceed to rearrange all the furniture so the two single beds were as far away from one another as humanly possible.

Reaction from guys in hotel 2: one of the guys would sleep ON THE FLOOR for the 4 nights, while the other had the bed.

Now you tell me why it is that none of the girls felt like the other girl would accost them in the middle of the night and yet all the guys immediately feared for their sexual integrity. It's beyond ridiculous if you ask me.
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Old 02-17-2007, 12:15 PM   #107
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It's called a Double Standard.
In the US, 2 straight women can dance with each other and that's ok.
If 2 straight guys dance with each other, they're gay.
I don't know. I went to Vegas a few years back with all of my straight male friends and each room came with two double beds, but we had no problem sharing beds.
I guess it all depends how you were raised.
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Old 02-17-2007, 12:28 PM   #108
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Originally posted by Irvine511

trust us. we're not going to sex you up in the showers, i promise.
Never? This discussion was also going on at another forum I visit frequently. A couple men there did report receiving unwanted attention down there from other men in a communal shower. There is a nonzero chance of this sort of stuff happening, unless you automatically label these people as subhuman abominations.

I thought "tolerance" meant coexisting with people whose views are different from yours -- which in the setting of a locker room might mean putting up individual shower stalls, or mutually negotiating a deal where people who don't feel comfortable shower at different times if someone needs to shower before leaving-- instead of proclaiming that this one viewpoint is The Truth and that everyone better deal.

Neanderthal Man isn't getting a very good wireless signal over here in his cave, so this will probably be my final post in the thread -- I think I've said everything I want to say anyway.
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Old 02-17-2007, 01:31 PM   #109
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why do you hate gay people, headache in a suitcase?
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:21 AM   #110
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Never? This discussion was also going on at another forum I visit frequently. A couple men there did report receiving unwanted attention down there from other men in a communal shower. There is a nonzero chance of this sort of stuff happening, unless you automatically label these people as subhuman abominations.


oh please. there's never a never. of course some people are idiots, and what's to be sure that these aren't "straight" married men looking for an NSA blow-job? but thanks for the "report" from the trenches straight men have been forced to build so as not to be leered at by the desperate homos pawing at their netherregions.

you've, again, furthered the case for your own homophobia and insecurity and i would suggest that you continue to shower at home since that's probably the only way you're going to feel comfortable.
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:26 AM   #111
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Originally posted by speedracer

I thought "tolerance" meant coexisting with people whose views are different from yours -- which in the setting of a locker room might mean putting up individual shower stalls, or mutually negotiating a deal where people who don't feel comfortable shower at different times if someone needs to shower before leaving-- instead of proclaiming that this one viewpoint is The Truth and that everyone better deal.


and this bugs me a bit.

tolerance isn't about making everyone feel good about their own prejudices and insecurities. i will absolutely say that there is The Truth when it comes to locker rooms -- you can't bar gay people from them on the off-posibility that some straight men might feel uncomfortable. tolerance isn't about saying that every idea has equal merit. it is about providing the space to battle out all different ideas. and, sorry, but i haven't seen a single idea put forth that is an apt defense of either Hardaway's comments or a reasonable understanding of the quivering fear straight men feel at the idea of a homo in the locker room. some ideas are better defended than others, some thoughts are more defensible than others. tolerance allows the space to try out all ideas but it does not excuse sloppy thinking.
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:17 PM   #112
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why do you hate gay people, headache in a suitcase?
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:27 PM   #113
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My question is this: why do most heterosexual men get disgusted by homosexual men, but are turned on by homosexual women? Why is there a difference?


Oh, and Tim Hardaway just proved himself to be a disturbed and hateful man.
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:40 PM   #114
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My question is this: why do most heterosexual men get disgusted by homosexual men, but are turned on by homosexual women? Why is there a difference?

Because it's "double" of what they're attracted to (if you're talking in terms of why straight men like to watch women kiss, etc.). Simple as that.

I once had a guy explain it to me by this: "you can watch two people have sex, and there's no penis in the way"

Yeah, he wasn't a homophobe. Not at all.
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:36 PM   #115
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Because it's "double" of what they're attracted to (if you're talking in terms of why straight men like to watch women kiss, etc.). Simple as that.

I once had a guy explain it to me by this: "you can watch two people have sex, and there's no penis in the way"

Yeah, he wasn't a homophobe. Not at all.
Um, yeah I just think it's hilarious (not in a good way) that guys can say, "Ew, gay guys." then turn around and say, "Oh, yay, lesbians." It makes no sense to me...
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:56 PM   #116
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Hardaway proved himself an ignorant bufoon. His poor attempt at retraction and apology doesn't work either. Very pathetic for anyone this day and age, let alone any kind of celebrity to make such stupid remarks in public.
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:16 AM   #117
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I don't know which is worse:
1-Saying in an interview that you hate gay people.
2-Shortly thereafter, sticking by what you said when confronted about it.
3-Apologizing for what you said when you realized you shouldn't have said it publicly and now the whole world knows you're a homophobe and you lose all of your jobs because of it.

I guess Tim Hardaway did us all a huge favor. Not only did the NBA fire his ass, but so did the CBA.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:14 PM   #118
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[q]Where Tim Hardaway Was Right
By Michael Medved
Wednesday, February 21, 2007

Recent comments by retired basketball star Tim (“I hate gay people”) Hardaway did serious damage to his image and career but also unwittingly raised serious cultural issues about sexuality and gender.

Hardaway appropriately apologized for his harsh remarks, but many (if not most) Americans no doubt share his instinctive reluctance to share showers and locker rooms with open homosexuals. That reluctance also explains the controversial Defense Department policy that prevents out-of-the-closet gays from serving in the United States military.

In the wake of the nearly-universal condemnation of Tim Hardaway’s statements to a radio interviewer, the substantive issue remains. Is it a reasonable for an NBA basketball player (or a soldier in basic training, for that matter) to feel uncomfortable sharing intimate quarters with a homosexual, or does this represent an outrageous, irrational fear? In response to the Hardaway controversy, several sports columnists compared his resistance to the idea of playing alongside gay teammates to the racism of previous years when white players tried to avoid competing with (or against) blacks.

The analogy is ridiculous, of course. There is no rational basis for discomfort at playing with athletes of another race since science and experience show that human racial differences remain insignificant. The much better analogy for discomfort at gay teammates involves the widespread (and generally accepted) idea that women and men shouldn’t share locker rooms. Making gay males unwelcome in the intimate circumstances of an NBA team makes just as much sense as making straight males unwelcome in the showers for a women’s team at the WNBA. Most female athletes would prefer not to shower together with men not because they hate males (though some of them no doubt do), but because they hope to avoid the tension, distraction and complication that prove inevitable when issues of sexual attraction (and even arousal) intrude into the arena of competitive sports.

Tim Hardaway (and most of his former NBA teammates) wouldn’t welcome openly gay players into the locker room any more than they’d welcome profoundly unattractive, morbidly obese women. I specify unattractive females because if a young lady is attractive (or, even better, downright “hot”) most guys, very much including the notorious love machines of the National Basketball Association, would probably welcome her joining their showers. The ill-favored, grossly overweight female is the right counterpart to a gay male because, like the homosexual, she causes discomfort due to the fact that attraction can only operate in one direction. She might well feel drawn to the straight guys with whom she’s grouped, while they feel downright repulsed at the very idea of sex with her.

Many gay activists suggest that this near-universal straight male repulsion at the idea of sex with another man is merely the product of cultural conditioning: a learned prejudice that ought to be unlearned. This represents the core message of gay pride parades and even the drive for same-sex marriage: an effort to persuade all of society that gay sex is as beautiful as straight sex, and to “cure” men of their visceral disgust at the very thought of what two (or more) male homosexuals do with one another.

According to the “enlightened” advocates of gay liberation, this disgust gets to the very essence of “homophobia” – an altogether unjustified fear and distaste for male-on-male physical intimacy. When Hardaway says “I hate gay people” what he suggests at the deepest level is that he feels revolted by the very notion of same-sex eroticism and that he’d prefer not to face the distraction of such thoughts in the locker room or on the court.

In this sense, the reluctance to team (in athletics or the military) with announced homosexuals isn’t bigotry, it’s common sense. The recent “Astronaut Love Triangle” provides a pointed reminder of the way that even disciplined military careerists can be diverted, even ruined, by attraction, eroticism and romance.

Those who insist that basketball teams or submarine crews must welcome gay recruits must, for the sake of consistency, argue for the same welcome to teammates of the opposite gender. That notion – that a male player could, for instance, join a WNBA team without serious problems – shows the way that political correctness now seems to deny the obvious, often overwhelming potency of human sexuality.

Those who suggest that a guy could shower with young female athletes without risk of arousal, or that a gay guy could shower with young male athletes with problems or discomfort, don’t merely defy common sense. They ignore human nature.


Michael Medved is a film critic, best-selling author and nationally syndicated radio talk show host.[/q]
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:08 AM   #119
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Now you tell me why it is that none of the girls felt like the other girl would accost them in the middle of the night and yet all the guys immediately feared for their sexual integrity. It's beyond ridiculous if you ask me.
You're not a heterosexual man, so you'll never understand. It's okay. I'll never understand women or homosexual men.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:28 AM   #120
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I could tear that article to shreds, but to do so would justify it, and this screed doesn't even deserve to be used as toilet paper.
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