"I Hate Gay People"

[Vincent Vega]

Um, yeah I just think it's hilarious (not in a good way) that guys can say, "Ew, gay guys." then turn around and say, "Oh, yay, lesbians." It makes no sense to me...

Worst is, it's not one hot girl not available, but two

 

[AEON]

I could tear that article to shreds, but to do so would justify it, and this screed doesn't even deserve to be used as toilet paper.

I am curious, what are the points in the article you disagree with and why? Michael Medved is not necessarily considered a total lunatic, so why do you think he would write this?

 

[DrTeeth]

You're not a heterosexual man, so you'll never understand. It's okay. I'll never understand women or homosexual men.

I'm a heterosexual man and I don't understand it either, so I'm afraid you'll have to come up with a better answer.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Let's see..

His comments about the "attractiveness" of women indicate a certain level of misogyny. I suppose we should only let thin, beautiful women into pro locker rooms so that the naked/semi naked athletes don't have to be repulsed by all others-and can fantasize about having sex with them. Because as we all know people are animals with zero control over their sexual desires, and women-in spite of the fact that they are there to do a JOB-exist solely for the sexual pleasure of men. His comments about women make me sick And those WNBA women just hate men, according to Mr. Medved. The whole article reeks of stereotypes and irrational thought.

Gay men are just like all others-they are not going to attack other men in the locker room or the shower and force their sexual desires on them. Actually I think most might be much more dignified about their sexual desires and about not "forcing" them when they are not reciprocated. People are INDIVIDUALS, not some robotic members of groups who all behave in certain ways. And that certainly includes gay people. Some people want to believe in such robotic stereotypes, for whatever reason (s).

We can all look at each other, even naked, without forcing our sexual desires on others. To think not is demeaning to humans if you ask me. Having certain thoughts about someone isn't the same as acting on them-are straight men threatened even by the possible thoughts of gay men? Well gee, that's interesting. And all my gut instincts and experiences tell me that straight men are checking each other out in a locker room more than gay men are checking them out. And we all know the reasons for that. If the checking out is even the real issue.

 

[Irvine511]

I am curious, what are the points in the article you disagree with and why? Michael Medved is not necessarily considered a total lunatic, so why do you think he would write this?

basically, he's got a whole lot of growing up to do.

it's his issue, not a gay person's issue. if a gay person is in a locker room and isn't leering, then you have absolutely no place whatsoever telling him he cannot be there. if it makes you uncomfortable, you leave, Mr. Medved.

and i would say that his defending of "The Passion" did border on lunacy, but that's a whole other topic covered in depth in other threads.

 

[AEON]

I'm a heterosexual man and I don't understand it either, so I'm afraid you'll have to come up with a better answer.

Well in sports and in the Infantry - there is a closeness that develops. This closeness, this bonding, is based on trust that there is nothing sexual. Sometimes these men will exaggerate this idea in order to gain more trust.

In general, it is my observation that heterosexual men generally want more space between themselves - compared with homosexual men and women. It isn't homophobia, it is simply a matter of a distance preference.

You can cite all of the Greek man-boy love stories you want - I am referring to the modern American sports and Infantry experience.

 

[AEON]

it's his issue, not a gay person's issue. if a gay person is in a locker room and isn't leering, then you have absolutely no place whatsoever telling him he cannot be there. if it makes you uncomfortable, you leave, Mr. Medved.

So, by this logic, I should have the right to walk into a woman's shower naked and start lathering up - just as long as I don't leer.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So, by this logic, I should have the right to walk into a woman's shower naked and start lathering up - just as long as I don't leer.

No that's not logical-men and women don't do the job of playing professional sports on the same team. Men and men do-and someone being gay shouldn't at all preclude him from being there just because some straight guys have some sort of issue with it.

And women do the profession of sports reporting when men are naked in locker rooms. I assume that most of the men cover up and show respect for the women who are just trying to do their jobs. Of course some don't, because they're just juvenile fools

 

[Irvine511]

So, by this logic, I should have the right to walk into a woman's shower naked and start lathering up - just as long as I don't leer.

no.

gay men have been showering in the men's room since forever because they are men. gay men know how to conduct themselves and the familiarity of the situation removes the sexual component that would clearly be there if you were to saunter into the woman's room.

guess what? i was a swimmer for 14 years (ages 8-22) and i've seen a whole lotta naked man, a whole lotta beautifully built dudes in Speedos, i've helped men shave their backs and their heads for competition.

and i never once got a boner.

 

[Devlin]

What I wonder is this: Why is it so wrong for people to be made uncomfortable by the idea? Of course it's not 'rational'. Why does it have to be? Why must every single person on earth happily accept everything? Naturally, being bisexual myself, I'd rather people weren't made uncomfortable by it, but there it is. People are made uncomfortable, males especially. Mostly due to cultural training, and possibly because of the fact that men are biologically wired to be quite a bit more sexually agressive than women are, and there's no changing that. So, by extension, the assumption is made that the average gay man is - mentally at least - drooling over random male bodies. Which, in turn, just makes some guys' skin shiver in revulsion. Hurtful as that is, it's a fact; men shouldn't be made to feel like they're evil for feeling that way.

The only way I'd get upset is if someone tried to revoke a gay man's right to take a shower in the locker room. Which, I noticed, isn't going to happen in the NBA. Besides, how many gay people walk around with a giant honking neon sign announcing their sexual orientation? Not many. I sometimes think we Americans make too large of a deal out of sex. If it doesn't affect the everyday functioning of the team or whatever, why bother even putting that flag out there for others to attack?

And, well..discomfort with homosexuality does not always make one homophobic. I am uncomfortable with plastic surgury, vaccinations, and crowds. Am I then automatically phobic? Nope. After all, I ride the train, administer vaccines, fluids, blood draws, and whatnot, and will likely have to have a form of plastic surgery to have a reasonably male-appearing chest.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Why the Hell are you getting plastic surgery? You are totally going in a different direction! It looks like you have some esteem issues, Devlin. If you've got a problem with your chest, why don't you just start working out more?
BTW, you're gay, not bisexual. You might fuck women, but you're gay.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Why the Hell are you getting plastic surgery? You are totally going in a different direction! It looks like you have some esteem issues, Devlin. If you've got a problem with your chest, why don't you just start working out more?
BTW, you're gay, not bisexual. You might fuck women, but you're gay.

And you are accusing Justin of coming younger off than he is?

 

[yolland]

I agree...that was way out of line.

 

[AEON]

no.

gay men have been showering in the men's room since forever because they are men. gay men know how to conduct themselves and the familiarity of the situation removes the sexual component that would clearly be there if you were to saunter into the woman's room.

guess what? i was a swimmer for 14 years (ages 8-22) and i've seen a whole lotta naked man, a whole lotta beautifully built dudes in Speedos, i've helped men shave their backs and their heads for competition.

and i never once got a boner.

So then, why wouldn't you want men and women showering together? Shaving each other? As long as they don't get "obviously" aroused - there should be no problem. Isn't that what you're saying?

 

[Devlin]

Why the Hell are you getting plastic surgery? You are totally going in a different direction! It looks like you have some esteem issues, Devlin. If you've got a problem with your chest, why don't you just start working out more?
BTW, you're gay, not bisexual. You might fuck women, but you're gay.

Okay - I want you to read this carefully; very, very carefully.

A) I fuck neither men /nor/ women. I am currently celibate. I am, however, attracted to both men and women to the same degree.

B) Breasts do not go away when you work out. They must be surgically removed.

C) I do not have a 'problem with my chest'. I have a problem with my breasts - I should not have them. Not that the aren't lovely - because they are. They simply should not be attached to /me/.


So, in summary - save your 'diagnosis' of low self-esteem for the fuzzy bunnies who give a crap about fuzzy feelings.




































I must restrain the sudden urge to start channeling Larry. I simply must.[/size=1]

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So then, why wouldn't you want men and women showering together? Shaving each other? As long as they don't get "obviously" aroused - there should be no problem. Isn't that what you're saying?

You don't seem to be understanding that Irvine and any other gay man has the right to do what he enjoys, like swimming or any other sport. And to do that professionally if they so desire. To do that in spite of any and all insecurities that any straight guy might have. It is about rights, not about men and women showering together. That has nothing to do with it, in spite of your insistence otherwise. And it is about stereotypes that are not rooted in reality. The kind of stereotypes that Tim Hardaway used to try to support his hateful thoughts.

And I apologize to Devlin for that comment, even though I'm not the one who made it. I just can't believe some of what goes on here sometimes, I really can't. That is WAY out of line.

 

[MrPryck2U]

I agree, my comments were out of line. I am sorry.

 

[AEON]

You don't seem to be understanding that Irvine and any other gay man has the right to do what he enjoys, like swimming or any other sport. And to do that professionally if they so desire. To do that in spite of any and all insecurities that any straight guy might have. It is about rights, not about men and women showering together. That has nothing to do with it, in spite of your insistence otherwise. And it is about stereotypes that are not rooted in reality. The kind of stereotypes that Tim Hardaway used to try to support his hateful thoughts.

And I apologize to Devlin for that comment, even though I'm not the one who made it. I just can't believe some of what goes on here sometimes, I really can't. That is WAY out of line.

I echo that apology. That comment was certainly uncalled for.

Back to the point -
I am not trying to justify hatred. I'm not trying to keep homosexual men and women from playing sports. What I am trying to say is that allowing a homosexual man into the same showers as naked heterosexual men is equal to allowing a heterosexual man into a shower room full of naked heterosexual women.

 

[Devlin]

I agree, my comments were out of line. I am sorry.

Forgiven, and all is now well.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

What I am trying to say is that allowing a homosexual man into the same showers as naked heterosexual men is equal to allowing a heterosexual man into a shower room full of naked heterosexual women.

It is? Why? Because all gay men will leer at straight men and hit on them or force themselves on them? So thus it follows that all straight men will do the same to hetero women in said shower. Wow, you really have a high opinion of your gender.

 

[Irvine511]

So then, why wouldn't you want men and women showering together? Shaving each other? As long as they don't get "obviously" aroused - there should be no problem. Isn't that what you're saying?

firstly, in swimming, you become so used to seeing the opposite gender and same gender in bathing suits that much of the sexual component is reduced, and yes, we've had co-ed "shaving parties" before championships which are about as sexual for the girls as they were for the boys.

and if men and women grew up and were socially conditioned to showering together and using locker rooms together and bathrooms together, i don't think we'd have much of a problem at all.

and, really, it's only in North America where nudity = sex.

this all breaks down because, AEON, correct me if i'm wrong, but you've never showered with a bunch of women in the locker room. i have showered with a bunch of men in the locker room. i'm used to it. you wouldn't be. i'm not a panting, drooling, fully erect mess of a man the way most straight men seem to imagine (and take pride) that they'd be if they were let loose in the women's room.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Devlin, I'm truly sorry. You're right, I shouldn't have played armchair social worker. I think what alarmed me was your thoughts of getting some plastic surgery, but if that is the only way to get rid of your man breasts, I'm all for it.
This whole gay issue is crazy. Tim Hardaway kind of did us a favor by advertising his ignorance, but now it's spun out of control.
It's weird, I've created this online persona of Mr Pryck and sometimes I'm out of control with it. Sometimes Mr Pryck takes over and is more concerned with being a prick then with people's feelings.
Then, when you're told that you're WAY out of line, it really hits home.

 

[AEON]

this all breaks down because, AEON, correct me if i'm wrong, but you've never showered with a bunch of women in the locker room. i have showered with a bunch of men in the locker room. i'm used to it. you wouldn't be. i'm not a panting, drooling, fully erect mess of a man the way most straight men seem to imagine (and take pride) that they'd be if they were let loose in the women's room.

I can't say that I showered with a bunch of naked women. Although, in my more younger, heathen days - I certainly wanted to.

Are you then saying, that heterosexual men should be allowed to shower with women so they can get used to it - and therefore remove the sexual tension?

 

[AEON]

It is? Why? Because all gay men will leer at straight men and hit on them or force themselves on them? So thus it follows that all straight men will do the same to hetero women in said shower. Wow, you really have a high opinion of your gender.

How's it different?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

How's it different?

You said it's equal and I asked you to explain why. So if you could..I was merely speculating about your answer based upon my own logic about your reasoning and your post. And like I said, it certainly doesn't portray males in the most favorable light.

Irvine already gave you his personal experience about it, so is that enough to refute the seeming stereotypes you are having about how gay men behave in that type of situation with straight men?

 

[Irvine511]

Are you then saying, that heterosexual men should be allowed to shower with women so they can get used to it - and therefore remove the sexual tension?

no. what i am saying is that your analogy is incorrect.

it's totally practical to divide locker rooms on the basis of gender. it is not practical to divide locker rooms on the basis of sexual orientation. gay people abide by the rules just like anyone else and they are so used to the situation that it's not terribly sexual.

 

[Irvine511]

How's it different?

i am used to being in the men's room. i have been in the men's room since i was a child and i'm going to continue to go into the MEN's room because i am a MAN. if i need to, i will continue to shower in the presence of other MALES because i am a MALE. for me, it is not a sexual situation. circumstance has forced me to be far more in control of my body than your average straight man, so don't place your fantasies on me.

and, just for the record, the thougth of having sex with one of my teammates from swimming is about as appealing as having sex with one of my siblings.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes indeed. Sexual orientation is not the same as gender and thus the analogy is false.

 

[Devlin]

Devlin, I'm truly sorry. You're right, I shouldn't have played armchair social worker. I think what alarmed me was your thoughts of getting some plastic surgery, but if that is the only way to get rid of your man breasts, I'm all for it.
This whole gay issue is crazy. Tim Hardaway kind of did us a favor by advertising his ignorance, but now it's spun out of control.
It's weird, I've created this online persona of Mr Pryck and sometimes I'm out of control with it. Sometimes Mr Pryck takes over and is more concerned with being a prick then with people's feelings.
Then, when you're told that you're WAY out of line, it really hits home.

Small caveat - I was born female. My physical body is female. Gah. I may have overreacted, assuming that you knew that and were being a bit of an asshole.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Hey, I wasn't being an asshole. I was being a prick. There is a difference, you know. Anyway, it looks as if this thread is close to running it's course, so my guess is the mods are close to having enough of this topic. God Bless them. Everyone's squabbling like schoolchildren. Let's all just take a shower and cleanse ourselves. Right, Irvine?