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Old 02-22-2007, 01:47 PM   #136
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Originally posted by AEON


So then, why wouldn't you want men and women showering together? Shaving each other? As long as they don't get "obviously" aroused - there should be no problem. Isn't that what you're saying?
You don't seem to be understanding that Irvine and any other gay man has the right to do what he enjoys, like swimming or any other sport. And to do that professionally if they so desire. To do that in spite of any and all insecurities that any straight guy might have. It is about rights, not about men and women showering together. That has nothing to do with it, in spite of your insistence otherwise. And it is about stereotypes that are not rooted in reality. The kind of stereotypes that Tim Hardaway used to try to support his hateful thoughts.

And I apologize to Devlin for that comment, even though I'm not the one who made it. I just can't believe some of what goes on here sometimes, I really can't. That is WAY out of line.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:51 PM   #137
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I agree, my comments were out of line. I am sorry.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:55 PM   #138
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


You don't seem to be understanding that Irvine and any other gay man has the right to do what he enjoys, like swimming or any other sport. And to do that professionally if they so desire. To do that in spite of any and all insecurities that any straight guy might have. It is about rights, not about men and women showering together. That has nothing to do with it, in spite of your insistence otherwise. And it is about stereotypes that are not rooted in reality. The kind of stereotypes that Tim Hardaway used to try to support his hateful thoughts.

And I apologize to Devlin for that comment, even though I'm not the one who made it. I just can't believe some of what goes on here sometimes, I really can't. That is WAY out of line.
I echo that apology. That comment was certainly uncalled for.

Back to the point -
I am not trying to justify hatred. I'm not trying to keep homosexual men and women from playing sports. What I am trying to say is that allowing a homosexual man into the same showers as naked heterosexual men is equal to allowing a heterosexual man into a shower room full of naked heterosexual women.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:57 PM   #139
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I agree, my comments were out of line. I am sorry.
Forgiven, and all is now well.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:05 PM   #140
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What I am trying to say is that allowing a homosexual man into the same showers as naked heterosexual men is equal to allowing a heterosexual man into a shower room full of naked heterosexual women.
It is? Why? Because all gay men will leer at straight men and hit on them or force themselves on them? So thus it follows that all straight men will do the same to hetero women in said shower. Wow, you really have a high opinion of your gender.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:08 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


So then, why wouldn't you want men and women showering together? Shaving each other? As long as they don't get "obviously" aroused - there should be no problem. Isn't that what you're saying?


firstly, in swimming, you become so used to seeing the opposite gender and same gender in bathing suits that much of the sexual component is reduced, and yes, we've had co-ed "shaving parties" before championships which are about as sexual for the girls as they were for the boys.

and if men and women grew up and were socially conditioned to showering together and using locker rooms together and bathrooms together, i don't think we'd have much of a problem at all.

and, really, it's only in North America where nudity = sex.

this all breaks down because, AEON, correct me if i'm wrong, but you've never showered with a bunch of women in the locker room. i have showered with a bunch of men in the locker room. i'm used to it. you wouldn't be. i'm not a panting, drooling, fully erect mess of a man the way most straight men seem to imagine (and take pride) that they'd be if they were let loose in the women's room.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:08 PM   #142
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Devlin, I'm truly sorry. You're right, I shouldn't have played armchair social worker. I think what alarmed me was your thoughts of getting some plastic surgery, but if that is the only way to get rid of your man breasts, I'm all for it.
This whole gay issue is crazy. Tim Hardaway kind of did us a favor by advertising his ignorance, but now it's spun out of control.
It's weird, I've created this online persona of Mr Pryck and sometimes I'm out of control with it. Sometimes Mr Pryck takes over and is more concerned with being a prick then with people's feelings.
Then, when you're told that you're WAY out of line, it really hits home.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:15 PM   #143
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Originally posted by Irvine511





this all breaks down because, AEON, correct me if i'm wrong, but you've never showered with a bunch of women in the locker room. i have showered with a bunch of men in the locker room. i'm used to it. you wouldn't be. i'm not a panting, drooling, fully erect mess of a man the way most straight men seem to imagine (and take pride) that they'd be if they were let loose in the women's room.
I can't say that I showered with a bunch of naked women. Although, in my more younger, heathen days - I certainly wanted to.

Are you then saying, that heterosexual men should be allowed to shower with women so they can get used to it - and therefore remove the sexual tension?
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:16 PM   #144
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


It is? Why? Because all gay men will leer at straight men and hit on them or force themselves on them? So thus it follows that all straight men will do the same to hetero women in said shower. Wow, you really have a high opinion of your gender.
How's it different?
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:23 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

How's it different?
You said it's equal and I asked you to explain why. So if you could..I was merely speculating about your answer based upon my own logic about your reasoning and your post. And like I said, it certainly doesn't portray males in the most favorable light.

Irvine already gave you his personal experience about it, so is that enough to refute the seeming stereotypes you are having about how gay men behave in that type of situation with straight men?
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:28 PM   #146
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Originally posted by AEON

Are you then saying, that heterosexual men should be allowed to shower with women so they can get used to it - and therefore remove the sexual tension?


no. what i am saying is that your analogy is incorrect.

it's totally practical to divide locker rooms on the basis of gender. it is not practical to divide locker rooms on the basis of sexual orientation. gay people abide by the rules just like anyone else and they are so used to the situation that it's not terribly sexual.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:30 PM   #147
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How's it different?


i am used to being in the men's room. i have been in the men's room since i was a child and i'm going to continue to go into the MEN's room because i am a MAN. if i need to, i will continue to shower in the presence of other MALES because i am a MALE. for me, it is not a sexual situation. circumstance has forced me to be far more in control of my body than your average straight man, so don't place your fantasies on me.

and, just for the record, the thougth of having sex with one of my teammates from swimming is about as appealing as having sex with one of my siblings.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:30 PM   #148
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Yes indeed. Sexual orientation is not the same as gender and thus the analogy is false.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:30 PM   #149
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Originally posted by MrPryck2U
Devlin, I'm truly sorry. You're right, I shouldn't have played armchair social worker. I think what alarmed me was your thoughts of getting some plastic surgery, but if that is the only way to get rid of your man breasts, I'm all for it.
This whole gay issue is crazy. Tim Hardaway kind of did us a favor by advertising his ignorance, but now it's spun out of control.
It's weird, I've created this online persona of Mr Pryck and sometimes I'm out of control with it. Sometimes Mr Pryck takes over and is more concerned with being a prick then with people's feelings.
Then, when you're told that you're WAY out of line, it really hits home.
Small caveat - I was born female. My physical body is female. Gah. I may have overreacted, assuming that you knew that and were being a bit of an asshole.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:37 PM   #150
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Hey, I wasn't being an asshole. I was being a prick. There is a difference, you know. Anyway, it looks as if this thread is close to running it's course, so my guess is the mods are close to having enough of this topic. God Bless them. Everyone's squabbling like schoolchildren. Let's all just take a shower and cleanse ourselves. Right, Irvine?
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