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Old 04-07-2002, 05:42 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
First off, my opinion of you, z edge, has not changed one bit. You're certainly a good guy, but we disagree on some subjects. Quite frankly, I thought we'd agree on someone as clearly extremist as Sen. Jesse Helms, but, hey, life is about surprises.
Melon, I would gladly lay my life down for you or anyone here in this forum, or anyone in America or the rest of the world if necessary. That will never change. What changed for me is that you lost my respect, momentarily perhaps, but as a human being I still have love for you and appreciate your contributions here and value your input. You were VERY wrong in your comment yesterday, you should acknowledge that.

Quote:
Since you've clearly expanded the definition of "liberal media" to include any negative press on Sen. Helms, it is clear that I will never be able to prove anything to you. So that is that.
Look, I never said I was Helms' biggest fan. Deal with the fact that we argued/debated/whatever over something a bit bigger than Helms, okay?

Quote:
Secondly, I will not be joining the military anytime soon. I'm done being closeted. It's not good for the old mental health. If I run for senator, I'm going to be me, quirks and all. A novel concept in a field of window-dressing, eh? If I lose, then I know I have lost honestly.
Hey Melon, there are plenty of folks in the military in your shoes, remember I served with them for a while. The truth is, nobody really cares about that in everyday life. Do your freaking job, go home and be happy. Yes people find out about it, but if you are a good soldier/airman/marine they won't make your life the hell you think they would.

Honestly, I didn't reccommend that to you for funnies, it was genuine. The military is a great way of life, best to serve at minimal terms IMO. It could actually help launch your political aspirations, along with your schooling and convictions.

I mean I would even support you in this.

Quote:
Third, my issue, all along, was with Sen. Helms. I don't care which party he belongs to. FYI, he was a Democrat for decades until the Democratic Party took on a civil rights platform in the 1960s. My argument was fully on Sen. Helms, whom I think is beyond evil and undeserving of any redemption from me. If God saves his soul, then it really is proof positive that anyone can get into heaven for everything that rotten man has done over the decades. As for the rest of the Republican Party? My gripes are mostly the hypocrisy (pro-life, pro-death penalty), fiscal irresponsibility (huge tax cuts, but often huge increases in spending [i.e., the military]), and, of course, legislated homophobia.

I certainly would not be running as a Republican senator for the sole purpose of towing the party line. Preaching to liberals is like preaching to the choir; the clear obstruction is still the Republican Party. Me joining the choir will not change anything. Just as Bill Clinton redefined what it meant to be "Democrat" in the 1990s, I certainly see no problem going in and redefining what it means to be "Republican."

In fact, one of the most interesting foibles of history is the fact that the original Republican Party (founded in 1854) was liberal until 1870, when Northern liberals (Republicans) flooded the Democratic Party and, as a result, Northern conservatives (Democrats) retreated into the Republican Party. Southern Democrats, who were conservatives, switched to the Republican Party gradually from the 1960s to the 1980s, after getting angry at the Democrats' platform of civil rights (the reason why Sen. Strom Thurmond and Sen. Helms defected).

Why I am especially amused by that fact is that Republicans love to use Abraham Lincoln as one of their poster boys...but, as he was president from 1861-1865, that was before the great defection in 1870. Hence, he would be considered more of a Democrat nowadays. Ulysses S. Grant was the first "modern" Republican president.

In the end, *if* I decide to run as a Republican, I hope to switch the control of the party to the moderates once and for all. I will get my revenge, and I will have done it in a constructive manner. Now aren't you proud of me?

Melon

I dunno why, but I am to shitty to argue Anyway, my best wishes to you. I called you out on where I really thought You fucked up, my point has been made. My gratitude to you for your response, and your manner in such. Remember what I said, I would die for my country if necessary and that includes all of you.

Regards
Bless
xoxo
peace

------------------
The FIRST and ONLY Banana

[This message has been edited by LOVE MUSCLE (edited 04-07-2002).]
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Old 04-07-2002, 08:19 AM   #107
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Politics makes strange bedfellows and this is no exception. Bono has always been political, and not instead of screaming it out from a stage in front of fans, he's taken it up one level and he's meeting with congress. And just because you MEET with someone on an issue, doesn't means he's a fan of them...but if you tell a person " you suck" tehy tend not to react very well to you. Bono is being artful. And in truth I think that anyone who says someone should not do anything for africa right now needs to have his or her genitals removed to prevent spreading those genes to potentially idiotic offspring. Do I agree with everything bono says all the time ? no...but..as far as africa is concerned, I'm glad to see that SOMEONE gives a damn. As for the whole meeting with helms and hatch...the republican party has produced it's share of assholes that's no doubt...but if bono has to sacrifice personal integrity to do something for africa..then..I think he should . Rock and roll is a small part of life..people are dying and not even get a chance at life...that's a real issue. Bono didn't become an artist to make music, he did it to make a difference, and he's doign that.

Diamond..do I think you have a right to be OFFENDED?...probably not..people have right to opinions. The only person who has a right to be offended by comments like that..is bono


Honestly the only real shame is that more u2 fans dont' follow bono's example.

[This message has been edited by Arun V (edited 04-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Arun V (edited 04-07-2002).]
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Old 04-07-2002, 09:03 AM   #108
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Very well said halfstar.
One clarification though, I do think if someone like-
Osama
or
Yassar A
or
Saddam H
or
David Duke
or
The Montana Freeman
or
Paublo Esabar- offered Bono a large sum of money to help Data or the Children of Cherynobal that he would respectfully decline their offers.

He does have scrupples and integrity.
He doesnt see the Republicans quite this way.

You summed it up well w the statement "Bono became a rockstar to make a difference"..

Alot of rockstars start their careers to be somebody.
Bono started his career to do something.
ie- Substance before symbolism.

BTW-Have you been drinking too much coffee ?

Your Friend-
Diamond




[This message has been edited by Diamond The U2 Patriot (edited 04-08-2002).]
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Old 04-08-2002, 12:03 AM   #109
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bump..
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Old 04-08-2002, 01:31 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:


I certainly would not be running as a Republican senator for the sole purpose of towing the party line. Just as Bill Clinton redefined what it meant to be "Democrat" in the 1990s, I certainly see no problem going in and redefining what it means to be "Republican."

This is a very interesting take on things, Something I noticed with Clinton.. as he changed the Country's definition of 'Moderate', And Bush.. With his little Forays into joint signings with Ted Kennedy... and other such endeavors such as the Federal Airport Security.. W. Bush is redefining with these such 'Breaks' with the Stout Conservatives what it means to be a 'Moderate' in this Country.

L.Unplugged
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Old 04-09-2002, 01:46 AM   #111
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This will really chap ya'lls asses.. Rush's Latest on Bono and other Cause Celebrities.. His comments a bit ago were scoffed at, mostly due to the fact that they were more on the line of personal insults.. However, this time, I think there's a bit more to the statements than last time's fluff..

This all began when Dave Matthews sounded like a complete idiot when he was trying to explain why his new Ice Cream was giving proceeds to help curb global warming...

L.Unplugged


EIB:

On Friday, an attempt was made to provoke the all-feeling, all-caring, all-knowing, newly all-hearing Maha Rushie with a comment on President Bush's meeting with U2's Bono. Bono's issue is the forgiving of Third World debt. He's for it. He's passionately for it. He wants all that debt wiped out, because these countries will never have the prosperity to pay it.

The fact that they won't ever have prosperity because they're a bunch of communist and socialist dictatorships isn't the point - though it is key to remember. The point is the reason these celebrities go for causes like this, especially when they have no knowledge of them. All they have is the universally human ability to feel. All they have are "good intentions," which we all know don't matter as much as results do.

Of course, we all get sucked in. Everybody has good intentions, compassion and big hearts, but how hard is it to be for forgiving debt? What measure of intellect does it require? What degree of substance does it demand to be of the opinion that people who don't have money should not be forced to pay back loans? It is very easy. You just say it, and wait for the applause.



How hard is it to do that if you're not the one losing the money, or having your mortgage rates increased because some bank "forgave" defaulted loans. You just have to say, "I think the Third World should be forgiven its debt load." What is it about that opinion that garners such appreciation and admiration? Why do you need to travel around the world eyeballing poverty in order to conclude, "These people should not be made to pay back their money."

Why isn't your conclusion that we need more freedom, not to reward corrupt, broken regimes? It doesn't fix the problem of poverty to join some cause or throw good loan money after bad. I could join the cause today. All I would have to do is say, "You know what, folks? I am for the forgiveness of third world debt." If I did that, I would be celebrated as a hero, a man who had seen the light and who understood the plight of the poor worldwide. Isn't that the traditional liberal line anyway? Results don't matter. Feelings do.





[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 04-09-2002).]
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Old 04-09-2002, 03:10 AM   #112
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Lemonite,
I did not understand if the above response to BONO and his activities was yours or if it was Rush's. Who ever it is, it makes some big mistakes about the nature of BONO's activities. First, BONO was contacted by the Jubilee 2000 compaign to work for them and attempt to get politicians to support the idea of debt forgiveness for many poor countries. So this arguement against BONO that he is not smart for coming up with the idea is absurd. BONO's job this whole time has been to promote an idea that had already been out there for some time but never tried. So BONO's job has been one of being a compaigner to get people on board to reduce debt. He is Jubilee's PR man and he has done a very effective job.
He understands the Economics of this situation and probably knows more about it than almost any student with an undergrad degree in Economics. Maybe more than many graduate Economic students and their Profs. Larry Summers is probably one of the smartest economist out there and he was very impressed with BONO's knowledge and commented how smart he thought BONO was. GW. Treasury Sec. has had a similar reaction. As for RUSH, I doubt he has ever taken an Economics class. BONO knows and understand the issues where RUSH's knowledge is definitely cause for question on this one.
The political situation in Africa is more complex than a simple statement of, All these countries are unreformable dictatorships where this will never work.
Again BONO is compaigning to get politicians to support a well known idea that has not been tried before despite its supposed simple nature. When was the last time we had debt relief of this scale for African countries? BONO has influence because of his celebrity but is also informed and intelligent on the issue even more than many of the politicians he deals with. Politicians have many other issues to focus on and may or may not have staff members that are experts on the issue of debt relief to certain countries.
The fact is the results on Economic development do not have a good record so far. RUSH wants results not feelings. But again, what have been the results of NO DEBT RELIEF? Someone like RUSH who may not have any "feelings" for the issue, won't work to achieve results. No feeling, no results. BONO has feeling and wants things to change for the better. BONO knows that the LIVE AID show in 1985 only provided about two weeks of relief for Africa. He has studied and understands that more than feeling is needed, and real results take BILLIONS of Dollars and not millions in addition to other factors. This level of debt relief has never been tried before by the politicians and "experts".
BONO should be commended for his role in promoting and educating politicians and the general public around the world about the problems that Africa faces. Most politicians and the general public do not even know off hand the names and locations of most countries in Africa let alone the difficult political/economic/health issues there.
While RUSH might be informed on certain issue's, he is often a Republican cheerleader and attack dog against the Democrats. I've listened and notice sometimes a lack of knowledge on several facts and poor understanding of some issue's. But I guess his chief job besides making money is to be a compaigner for main Republican party platform vs the Democrats instead of being an expert on certain issue's.
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Old 04-09-2002, 05:34 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
he can run for president of Ireland.
Melon

Too true, we had a former eurovision song contest winner who nearly got in a few years back!

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Old 04-09-2002, 08:05 AM   #114
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Actually I believe Bono stumbled across teh campaign...not vice versa..I dont' believe they sought him out.
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Old 04-09-2002, 08:11 AM   #115
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Z edge..just because you are conservative...doesn't mean you have to defend Helms. He is a Joke and deserves to be ridiculed. I'm ashamed that he is put in his seat every year. He is an embarassment to conservatism. I understand your feelings being in the military and I respect that. But if helms is indicative of conservatism, I don't see how anyone in good conscience can call themselves republican. I personally have nothing against republicans. But I sincerly hope that people realize that when they defend helms..they aren't doing conservatism a favor, and in fact they are hurting it.

[This message has been edited by Arun V (edited 04-09-2002).]
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Old 04-09-2002, 11:05 AM   #116
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Arun-
I dont think Brother Edge is going outta his way to defend Mr Helms.
Again most Republicans esp - the younger ones are quietly waiting for Mr Helms to retire.
Arun you are right he doesnt attract new people to the party.
Were being polite because he's old.
The only 'good' thing outta this is Bono sat down w/the old man w/COMPASSION and brought some sense into this person's brain.
Bono could of chose to do nothing.
I like Bono's example the best.
Iam not excusing Mr Helms past record.

ZEdge thank you for serving our country.
Lastly Brother Arun, when youre old enough I think you should be able to join the Republican Party.jk

Your Friend-
diamond
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Old 04-09-2002, 08:09 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V:
Bacchus...is a true conservative..conservatism does not outweigh reason
Thanks! He is my Congressman, and he truly HAS earned Bono's friendship, as he and former Congressman Kasich, both drop-the-debt supporters, got Bono introduced to all kinds of Capitol Hill gurus.

~U2Alabama

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Old 04-09-2002, 08:19 PM   #118
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Originally posted by Diamond The U2 Parrot:

And 2 of those 3 are OLD and on their way out.
Actually, Congressman Dick Armey is retiring following this current term, so that makes all THREE of them.

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Old 04-09-2002, 09:47 PM   #119
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Actually, Congressman Dick Armey is retiring following this current term, so that makes all THREE of them.

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Old 04-10-2002, 03:13 AM   #120
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Dick Army, Helms, and thurmann are embarassments to the party


Bacchus...is a true conservative..conservatism does not outweigh reason


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[This message has been edited by Arun V (edited 04-09-2002).]
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