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Old 04-06-2002, 07:46 AM   #91
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Defending Sen. Jesse Helms is proof positive that many would defend Satan if he decided one day to be a "conservative." Democrats and Republicans aside, this man is best off forgotten in the annals of time. The Republican Party will more than benefit from his departure. It is Congressmen like him--and the fact that he is not only defended, but encouraged by the party--that will prevent me from ever voting Republican. It is still nothing more than a rich-old-white-"Christian"-male bigot club to me...and Sen. Helms is all of the above.

DB9, I actually appreciate your last statement. But Sen. Helms would likely label everything you said as "communist."

Read the links, z edge. Are you afraid to? I have always read the links posted by conservatives, no matter how ridiculous I thought them to be. If you wish to only read one, read the Washington Post one.

If it is any consolation to any of you, my opinion of Sen. Helms does not reflect my opinion of everyone in the Republican Party. But the fact that the party machine still idolizes him is enough to show that the party still has a lot of problems.

Melon

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Old 04-06-2002, 09:24 AM   #92
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Melon-
One last observation.
As a Republican, I think silently alot of us our biding our time just waiting for the old Senator to leave.
He doesnt reflect the what the current Republican Party has evolve to.
At least Bono enlightened him a bit before his departure.

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Old 04-06-2002, 11:14 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond The U2 Patriot:
[B]He doesnt reflect the what the current Republican Party has evolve to.
At least Bono enlightened him a bit before his departure.
I don't know much about neither the republican party nor Sen. Helms but form what I've read in this thread I guess Diamond is right about this one

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Old 04-06-2002, 11:43 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond The U2 Patriot:
He doesnt reflect the what the current Republican Party has evolve to.
At least Bono enlightened him a bit before his departure.
I don't know much about neither the republican party nor Sen. Helms but form what I've read in this thread I guess Diamond is right about this one

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Old 04-06-2002, 01:09 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge:
You really should learn when to grow up. Maybe some day you will, and turn your hate/anger for Helms and conservatives in general into something constructive.
You generally cannot do, nor prove, yourself on a web forum. All you can do is gripe.

As for the "constructive" part, I've already thought about it. I'm half deciding to run as a Republican senator. Yes, that's right. If I can't disassemble this party from the outside, I'm going to do it from the inside. I have *enough* of a Republican platform in me that I can do it. Now I'm just putting my time in before I can do so...

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 04-06-2002).]
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Old 04-06-2002, 01:40 PM   #96
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If you remember, Bono said he would "meet with Satan," and sings that he has "held the hand of (a) devil," although I can assure you I would never vote for Satan.

I did not intend to defend Senator Helms (which I don't), but I was a bit shocked by your statment, which seemed out of the ordinary compared to your usual views of Christian judgement, forgiveness and grace.

Good luck in your election, though.

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Old 04-06-2002, 04:37 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
You generally cannot do, nor prove, yourself on a web forum. All you can do is gripe.
Prove something on the internet web forum. Anything I have proved in my 30 years of life has come through actions, understanding, love, pride, and tears. Proof is something earned. If I prove things to people, it's because of a mutual earned right and respect. Therefore, I prove things to people I know, love, and respect. You do not fit in one of these three categories. I used to respect you quite a bit at least, not right at the moment though.

I should add that I respect everyone until they prove me wrong.

So what is it you want me to prove? You want me to "POST A LINK"?? Oh, thats proof beyond a shadow of a doubt

Am I trying to prove that Jesse Helms dosen't deserve to "rot in hell for all eternity"?? Let our Lord be the judge of that. Have you ever heard this before; "Judge not lest ye be judged"?

I said the guy (Helms) wasn't a saint, and I never actually defended HIM the person, I was defending his party against someone who uses him to generalize the party in the cleverest of ways. Most of my gripe was defending his "soul" from eternal damnation.

All I can do is gripe. LOL, yeah I gripe, sure. But you don't, as your are borderline perfection in every aspect and always right (see, I am receptive)


Quote:
As for the "constructive" part, I've already thought about it. I'm half deciding to run as a Republican senator. Yes, that's right. If I can't disassemble this party from the outside, I'm going to do it from the inside. I have *enough* of a Republican platform in me that I can do it. Now I'm just putting my time in before I can do so...

Melon

Okay, go for it (thumbs up)! (you just made my day)

Let me offer this, a good way to a political career as a republican often starts with a couple of years in the military. As an officer, I think you would have to serve possibly six years though but it is a very prestigious charge. The military does wonders for your self esteem and self motivation, and is much more "accomidating" than you may believe.

I know because I served almost 7 years in the army, and I have just joined the civilian sector of the air force making more money than I ever have in my life and happy to get up every morning and spend YOUR hard earned tax dollars on "stuff" we cannot discuss

The most gratifying part of my entire term was when people would take the time out of their life to come and tell me that they appreciated my contribution and risking my life for them, their ability to have opinions and to enjoy the freedom we provide. It's true, I think you would like it.

My only other advice regarding your future run is to toughen up your skin a bit. Your current temperment won't get your to your post. You will need to absorb 150,000 times anything remotely resembling an arguement or "personal attack" you might have read in this forum. And you will have to absorb it with confidence (that you won't blow up), committment (to your constituents), focus (that you will not let them knock you down) resilience (when they DO knock you down you bounce back stronger from it) conviction (you obviously have that) and charisma.

And if you make it, I hope we don't have jackasses out there on web forum's telling whoever listens that you need to rot in hell for all of eternity!

Good Day
xoxoxo


[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 04-06-2002).]

[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 04-06-2002).]
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Old 04-06-2002, 05:53 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Defending Sen. Jesse Helms is proof positive that many would defend Satan if he decided one day to be a "conservative."
Your true agenda reveals itself once again; remembering the thread where I asked you if you would still hate G.W. Bush if he could achieve( at this point I named off a hypothetical list of major feats including; world peace, cure for aids/all disease, end poverty, etc) and you said "yes" you would still hate him no matter what he did. That makes as much sense as voting for satan only because he is a "republican candidate" See this is your agenda, Stop trying to use twisted logic that makes sense to you against conservatives.

Jesse Helms is just an excuse here for you to attack the entire republican party (which you now want to be a part of?) like usual. The only difference is that you have to use the back door because of Bush's unstoppable popularity (at least in the USA) and the Bush-bono connection (yeah I've noticed ) that has you in near fits.

Quote:
It is Congressmen like him--and the fact that he is not only defended, but encouraged by the party--that will prevent me from ever voting Republican.
Should you actually run, you might need your own vote!



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Old 04-06-2002, 06:30 PM   #99
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Melon, though I do not agree with z edge that you are using Helms as an excuse "to attack the entire republican party" I do feel that you have used up your share of bold statements to try and get a rise out off the republicans in this forum


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Old 04-06-2002, 09:31 PM   #100
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and what exactly is it "the current Republican party has evolved to?" By the way, can't stand any politicians, they're all frauds, sleezebags, and they only serve the people who buy them their office, in the case of Bush that's oil companies and Enron. He still has to decimate Alaska for them as payback also.
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Old 04-06-2002, 10:27 PM   #101
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First off, my opinion of you, z edge, has not changed one bit. You're certainly a good guy, but we disagree on some subjects. Quite frankly, I thought we'd agree on someone as clearly extremist as Sen. Jesse Helms, but, hey, life is about surprises. Since you've clearly expanded the definition of "liberal media" to include any negative press on Sen. Helms, it is clear that I will never be able to prove anything to you. So that is that.

Secondly, I will not be joining the military anytime soon. I'm done being closeted. It's not good for the old mental health. If I run for senator, I'm going to be me, quirks and all. A novel concept in a field of window-dressing, eh? If I lose, then I know I have lost honestly.

Third, my issue, all along, was with Sen. Helms. I don't care which party he belongs to. FYI, he was a Democrat for decades until the Democratic Party took on a civil rights platform in the 1960s. My argument was fully on Sen. Helms, whom I think is beyond evil and undeserving of any redemption from me. If God saves his soul, then it really is proof positive that anyone can get into heaven for everything that rotten man has done over the decades. As for the rest of the Republican Party? My gripes are mostly the hypocrisy (pro-life, pro-death penalty), fiscal irresponsibility (huge tax cuts, but often huge increases in spending [i.e., the military]), and, of course, legislated homophobia.

I certainly would not be running as a Republican senator for the sole purpose of towing the party line. Preaching to liberals is like preaching to the choir; the clear obstruction is still the Republican Party. Me joining the choir will not change anything. Just as Bill Clinton redefined what it meant to be "Democrat" in the 1990s, I certainly see no problem going in and redefining what it means to be "Republican."

In fact, one of the most interesting foibles of history is the fact that the original Republican Party (founded in 1854) was liberal until 1870, when Northern liberals (Republicans) flooded the Democratic Party and, as a result, Northern conservatives (Democrats) retreated into the Republican Party. Southern Democrats, who were conservatives, switched to the Republican Party gradually from the 1960s to the 1980s, after getting angry at the Democrats' platform of civil rights (the reason why Sen. Strom Thurmond and Sen. Helms defected).

Why I am especially amused by that fact is that Republicans love to use Abraham Lincoln as one of their poster boys...but, as he was president from 1861-1865, that was before the great defection in 1870. Hence, he would be considered more of a Democrat nowadays. Ulysses S. Grant was the first "modern" Republican president.

In the end, *if* I decide to run as a Republican, I hope to switch the control of the party to the moderates once and for all. I will get my revenge, and I will have done it in a constructive manner. Now aren't you proud of me?

Melon

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Old 04-06-2002, 10:32 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge:
Jesse Helms is just an excuse here for you to attack the entire republican party (which you now want to be a part of?) like usual.
Nope...you're incorrect on this.

As for being a Republican suddenly, it is all a matter of strategy, much of which I haven't figured out exactly yet. I picked up some interesting strategies from a Log Cabin Republican once that has made me consider it...

Melon

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Old 04-06-2002, 11:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Since you've clearly expanded the definition of "liberal media" to include any negative press on Sen. Helms, it is clear that I will never be able to prove anything to you.
Melon, regardless of anyone's opinon on Senator Helms, how could anyone consider MOTHER JONES and THE NEW REPUBLIC anythin BUT "liberal media"? They even consider THEMSELVES to be liberal magazines!

Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
My gripes are mostly the hypocrisy (pro-life, pro-death penalty)
I can understand this gripe here, and I guess it means you also have a gripe with the Democratic Party's pro-abortion, anti death penalty stance?

~U2Alabama

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Old 04-06-2002, 11:20 PM   #104
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Originally posted by U2Bama:
Melon, regardless of anyone's opinon on Senator Helms, how could anyone consider MOTHER JONES and THE NEW REPUBLIC anythin BUT "liberal media"? They even consider THEMSELVES to be liberal magazines!
You are certainly correct, and I was looking for criticisms from conservative media sources...........which were nonexistent. It was almost as if we were talking about two different senators here!

Quote:
I can understand this gripe here, and I guess it means you also have a gripe with the Democratic Party's pro-abortion, anti death penalty stance?
I have a lot of gripes about the Democratic Party, which is partly why I'm considering abandoning it for good. Let's just say it takes its electorate for granted, while not delivering on any of its promises. I'm tired of them being little more than Republican collaborators.

Melon

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Old 04-07-2002, 04:07 AM   #105
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The Republican tent is large enough to include you Melon.

Late-
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ps-
I always said you were a closet Republican.
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