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Old 04-05-2002, 08:43 PM   #76
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:03 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge:
Before I even spend my time clicking that link, tell me why I would trust something labeled "motherjones", a viable news source? Forgive my ignorance, I am just suspect of a lot of material out there. I could write something, anything, and people that have never heard it would believe it if it suits their moment.
And tell me why, hypothetically, a Jesse Helms lovefest coming from the "National Review" would be any more credible?

A talent that you'll learn from more free-thinking schools is how to read critically; being able to pick up obvious factual arguments and stuff that looks shaky or adds up to hearsay and conjecture.

So is the fact that Jesse Helms is a fundamentalist, homophobic, misogynist racist all made up all of a sudden, despite the fact that so many people have witnessed it? Or even expoused many of these views in public and in the media?

Quite bluntly, Helms only would like Bono, because he is a white, Christian, straight male. If he were black, agnostic, homosexual and/or female, Helms would doubtfully even give him the time of day. But you can fantasize that Helms is a happy-go-lucky senator all you want.

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:21 PM   #78
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I think there is some relevance to what I said, 'Newsweek' is at least considered a reliable source with at least some responsibility for what they print, or some degree of accountability. Thus if they were to name him a racist they'd better be able to back it up.

For instance, these "so called" urban legends that surfaced back in 98 about those people around Bill Clinton that died mysterious deaths or were missing. Was that a credible source? Yet so many people witnessed that.

See my point?

I'm not calling Helms a saint, but why should I believe all of the negative stuff written about him from the left?

I'd rather not be taken up with that game right now.

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Old 04-05-2002, 09:30 PM   #79
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Melon-
Youve got a pt. there about Bono being a straight/white guy and the Sen being at home w/him .
The more important pt is that Bono moved THIS OLD CODGER to a better place of understanding/compassion and you give NO acknowledgemment/recognition of this.
Youre almost as stubborn as the Senator.

People can change even when they're 150 yrs old.
Bono facilitated this.

My observation.
Your Friend-
diamond

[This message has been edited by Diamond The U2 Patriot (edited 04-05-2002).]
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:32 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge:
I'm not calling Helms a saint, but why should I believe all of the negative stuff written about him from the left?
Because the right is as about as blind as it gets when it comes to Sen. Helms, instead championing him as a defender of capitalism and small government, blindly looking the other way for everything else he stands for.

I'm really not going to argue this further either. I'm not about to argue with someone who is clearly not receptive.

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:35 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond The U2 Patriot:
The more important pt is that Bono moved THIS OLD CODGER to a better place of understanding/compassion and you give NO acknowledgemment/recognition of this.
Sen. Helms deserves no compassion. The "good Christian" senator deserves to rot in hell for all eternity. You can call this jaded all you want.

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:41 PM   #82
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Melon-
Whatever you do please dont spare us your true feelings...

Diamond
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Old 04-05-2002, 09:43 PM   #83
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Another good article on the "good Senator."
http://www.thenewrepublic.com/pundit...art082701.html

Melon

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Old 04-05-2002, 09:44 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Sen. Helms deserves no compassion. The "good Christian" senator deserves to rot in hell for all eternity. You can call this jaded all you want.

Melon

Okay you need to calm down now, that is a horrible thing to say.

And you say I'm not receptive?

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Old 04-05-2002, 10:01 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge:
Okay you need to calm down now, that is a horrible thing to say.
Do you really want to hear some horrible things to say?

"Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade-school classes that teach our children that CANNIBALISM, WIFE-SWAPPING and MURDER of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior." -- Jesse Helms fund raising mailer, 1996

"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction." -- Jesse Helms after Mexicans protested his visit in 1986

"It's their deliberate, disgusting, revolting conduct that is responsible for the disease." -- Justifying his refusal to give financial support to families of AIDS victims

"Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches." -- 1995 radio broadcast

"I've never heard once in this chamber anybody say to the homosexuals, 'Stop what you're doing.' If they would stop what they're doing there would not be one additional case of AIDS in the United States." -- Jesse Helms in the Senate

In fact, I think I was a bit too kind in referring to him...

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy
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Old 04-05-2002, 10:08 PM   #86
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true

Another one of my favorite articles on him.

I'm finished with this thread. I should know when to stop infuriating myself.

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy
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Old 04-05-2002, 10:25 PM   #87
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Melon-
First off thank you for your contributions to this thread and your viewpoints.
My hope is that you will not leave mad.

However, I will choose Bono's form of-
-Tolerence
-Compassion
-Understanding
-Open-Mindedness
-for ALL people,-(even grumpy old bigots)

-gays
-straights
-blacks
-whites
-libs
and
-conseratives..(even the ones that need help and enlightenment)

Peace
Out
Diamond



[This message has been edited by Diamond The U2 Patriot (edited 04-06-2002).]
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Old 04-05-2002, 10:26 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId =A10822-2001Aug28¨Found=true

Another one of my favorite articles on him.

I'm finished with this thread. I should know when to stop infuriating myself.

Melon

You really should learn when to grow up. Maybe some day you will, and turn your hate/anger for Helms and conservatives in general into something constructive.

It is an outrage that you would even stoop so low as to post that he should rot ___ ___....! I expected better of you.


And you didn't even bother to post those "excerpts" in full context, if their even accurate-which given the source (someone who would post that another person should rot ___ ___,) why shouldn't I be suspect?

And you say I'm not receptive because I don't want to read your "links" or doubt their validity. No freaking wonder, your anger and unacceptable judgement makes me doubt anything you would ever post now/

I have joked with you before, but you never seem to respond, and I have taken your side and shared your beliefs on at least one recurring issue.

Believe me, this time I AM focusing on the PERSON and NOT the issue.

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Old 04-05-2002, 10:56 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Sen. Helms deserves no compassion. The "good Christian" senator deserves to rot in hell for all eternity. You can call this jaded all you want.
Congratulations, Melon; you have lowered yourself to the same level as the Seantor's quotes which you listed. I am disappointed.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-05-2002, 11:15 PM   #90
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cannot believe anyone wanting in anyway, shape, or form to "defend" Jesse Helms or any of his ilk. It's like saying positive things about slavery or murder. why would anyone want to be connected to that person in anyway. go melon.
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