"I don't have anything against those people."

[Headache in a Suitcase]

NEW YORK (SI.com) -- White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen used a homosexual slur to describe prominent Chicago columnist Jay Mariotti, according to a report in the Chicago Sun-Times.

Before the White Sox's game Tuesday against St. Louis, Guillen said -- in reference to Mariotti, who recently criticized the White Sox manager for demoting rookie pitcher Sean Tracey after he recently refused to throw at the Rangers' Hank Blalock -- "What a piece of shit he is, fucking fag.

"I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country."

According to the Sun-Times, Guillen explained that in his native Venezuela, the word in question is not used to describe a person's sexuality, rather his courage.

Sun-Times columnist Greg Couch, in his Wednesday column, called for MLB commissioner Bud Selig to suspend Guillen for using a "hurtful homophobic" term.

ESPN.COM - Outspoken Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen apologized Wednesday for using a derogatory term in referring to Chicago Sun-Times columnist Jay Mariotti, then kept up his criticism of the writer.

Guillen went into a profanity-laced tirade against Mariotti before Tuesday night's game against St. Louis and called him a number of names, including a derogatory term that is often used to describe someone's sexual orientation.

Before Wednesday night's game, Guillen acknowledged that his use of the word might have offended some.

"I shouldn't have mentioned the name that was mentioned, but I'm not going to back off of Jay," Guillen said, using another profanity to describe Mariotti, a contributor on ESPN's "Around The Horn."

"The word I used, I should have used something different. A lot of people's feelings were hurt and I didn't mean it that way."

Guillen said he had spoken to White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf about the incident.

"Jay, I think I made this guy a lot of money and he's famous. If not for Ozzie Guillen, no one would have heard of him," Guillen said. "If I hurt anybody with what I called him, I apologize."

Angry with a recent column by Mariotti critical of Guillen's handling of recently demoted relief pitcher Sean Tracey and upset with Mariotti over past columns, Guillen said to reporters when referring to Mariotti before Tuesday's game, "What a piece of shit he is, fucking fag."

Mariotti, commenting on "Around The Horn" on Wednesday, believes a suspension is in order for Guillen.

When reached before Wednesday night's St. Louis-Chicago game, Mariotti said that the story is the gay groups who have been insulted, and not him.

But Mariotti added that he is not meeting Guillen or going to the White Sox clubhouse because he has been the subject of physical threats while there over the past few years and the White Sox have refused to do anything about it.

"I'm taking a stand," Mariotti said. "I've received physical threats through the years and the White Sox have done nothing to address it.

"I've said, 'If you guys are not going to do anything about this, I'm going to stop coming in there.' "

In a phone interview with the Associated Press on Wednesday night, Mariotti said his Thursday column will call for Guillen to be suspended.

"I'm a big guy. I have to accept the criticism," Mariotti said in a phone interview Wednesday night. "I'm appalled that he can use these ugly slurs and think it's an acceptable form of retaliation in American life. It's not."

Scott Reifert, the Chicago White Sox vice president of communications, said he was aware of one incident in 1997 of a shouting match between Mariotti and Tony Phillips, then a White Sox player. He said team officials and officials from the newspaper had lunch in the 90s to discuss Mariotti's complaints.

Since then, he said, the team has written letters to Mariotti and the newspaper offering to have a meeting and have offered to close the clubhouse for Mariotti to meet with the players, but the White Sox have not received any responses.

Reifert said the team had had good relationships with reporters and columnists and the team "stands on its reputation" for being open and accessible to reporters.

Commissioner's office spokesman Rich Levin said that Bud Selig learned of Guillen's remarks Wednesday afternoon.

"All I'm going to say at this point is that we're going to look into it," Levin told ESPN.com. He declined further comment.

Columnist Greg Couch of the Sun-Times wrote a column Wednesday in response, calling for commissioner Bud Selig to suspend Guillen for his use of a "hurtful homophobic" term.

Before writing the column, Couch asked Guillen for an explanation. Guillen defended his use of the term "fag" by saying this about homosexuals and the use of the word in question: "I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country.''

Guillen said that in his native Venezuela, that word is not a reference to a person's sexuality, but to his courage. He said he was saying that Mariotti is "not man enough to meet me and talk about [things before writing].''

Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago.

"I called that of this man [Mariotti],'' he told Couch. "I'm not trying to hurt anybody [else]."

Reifert offered to apologize on behalf of the organization when approached by Couch.

"To anybody who was insulted or hurt by that comment ... as an organization, we'll certainly apologize," Reifert told Couch.

this man is an utter piece of crap and a disgrace to the game of baseball. if the chicago white sox had any guts whatsoever, they would fire him on the spot.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Shocking that ESPN is painting Mariotti as a victim.

 

[AEON]

I still hear many people use that term. While using profanity of any sort usually demonstrates a lack of self control, those using the term are usually not saying the person is a homosexual - they are just saying the person is a "wus" or "weak." The word has changed meaning from when I was in high school.

I think everyone is making a big deal out of nothing. We are getting to the point where nobody can say anything. At the end of the day - do we really care what this coach said about a columnist? I mean - really? If you are that upset, then you should really check your priorities.

 

[U2DMfan]

One of the most homophobic places in the world is a men's locker room. So maybe instead of pretending to make this Guillen thing an issue, we could address that, which any homosexual player would never in a million years "come out" while playing for fear of....God knows what. Nobody gives a shit right now because it doesn't make a splash until you have someone specific to villify.

He apologized, that's all you can ask.
Spare me yet another 'lastest news cycle' false outrage.

 

[Muggsy]

Although what he did was really wrong what he said is true: the word "marica" (something like "fag") in Venezuela and Colombia means more things than "gay" it means also:
+ a coward person
+ a cheap, silly or meaningless thing. the word "maricaditas" is often used to name cute and small things. the hello kitty items are "maricaditas" for example. in fact there are a few (cheap) gift stores with that name here in Bogotá and nobody has got offended .
+ sometimes the word is used as the same way as "dude", in a not offending way, between close friends.
+ a simple exclamation, just like when you said "oh fuck!" or "damn it" we say "hay marica!"

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

if a coach of a professional sports team started using slurs that refer to blacks, or jews, or hispanics i highly doubt anyone would see it as "no big deal" or that i "need to get my priorities checked."

there would be outrage. we wouldn't even be discussing it, because he would have already been fired.

imagine if the context was changed... imagine if he used the N word, and then played it off by saying "oh i don't have anything against those people." he stereotyped in his appology for pete's sake.

i'm sorry if i feel this is a much bigger issue than some of you do, but i do... pretending to make this an issue instead of addressing the real problem? don't you think the fact that he can make comments like this and people are shrugging it off is part of the real problem?

unbelievable...

 

[Salome]

and then played it off by saying "oh i don't have anything against those people." he stereotyped in his appology for pete's sake.

I thought that was the most dubious bit about it all

 

[melon]

He should be dealt with in the same way professional sports deals with racist or anti-Semitic slurs.

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

mmmmmm...

 

[The OOTS]

Did anybody catch where Ozzie tried to explain that the use of the word 'fag' is different where he comes from? He tried to explain that in Latin America the word is used to mean 'coward'.

Nice try...Ozzie.

 

[verte76]

I agree with melon, he should be treated as if he'd used the "n" word or whatever.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Did anybody catch where Ozzie tried to explain that the use of the word 'fag' is different where he comes from? He tried to explain that in Latin America the word is used to mean 'coward'.

Nice try...Ozzie.

so what about what muggsy said?


I completely agree with U2DMfan, there is a larger problem at hand here.

 

[corianderstem]

Of course there's a larger problem here, but that doesn't mean we can't be outraged at Guillen for saying what he did.

 

[ntalwar]

I think Marge Schott was sanctioned for similar types of comments in the 90s, so maybe a similar standard should be used.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Of course there's a larger problem here, but that doesn't mean we can't be outraged at Guillen for saying what he did.

I never said people couldn't be outraged. Unfortunately Guillen has a history of not controlling his mouth. He should be fined and/or suspended, not fired.

 

[Irvine511]

I think Marge Schott was sanctioned for similar types of comments in the 90s, so maybe a similar standard should be used.

she said that Hitler was good for Germany ... at first.

silly old lady.

 

[The OOTS]

so what about what muggsy said?


I completely agree with U2DMfan, there is a larger problem at hand here.

Problem is...he's not in Latin America and has to be more cautious with his wording. Call the guy a coward if that is what he meant.

 

[corianderstem]

Sorry I misunderstood you, WHA.

 

[randhail]

I'd like to see Mariotti get fired too because he's a complete douchebag.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

she said that Hitler was good for Germany ... at first.

silly old lady.

he made so many nice highways


the problem with guillen is that this is not the first time he's made comments along these lines.

Last August, also at the end of a pregame session with reporters in the dugout at Yankee Stadium, Guillen loudly greeted an old friend: "Hey everybody, this guy's a homosexual! He's a child molester!"

Guillen said then, and again Wednesday, he has no problem with homosexuals, and mentioned cultural differences between the USA and his native Venezuela.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/whitesox/2006-06-21-guillen-apology_x.htm?csp=34


this is a pattern, not just an isolated incident.

 

[Bono's shades]

I still hear many people use that term. While using profanity of any sort usually demonstrates a lack of self control, those using the term are usually not saying the person is a homosexual - they are just saying the person is a "wus" or "weak." The word has changed meaning from when I was in high school.

Considering a common stereotype of gay men is that they are wusses and weaklings, isn't using the word "fag" in this context still a slam against homosexuals?

 

[Irvine511]

Considering a common stereotype of gay men is that they are wusses and weaklings, isn't using the word "fag" in this context still a slam against homosexuals?

bingo.

 

[Bluer White]

Before writing the column, Couch asked Guillen for an explanation. Guillen defended his use of the term "fag" by saying this about homosexuals and the use of the word in question: "I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country.''

The "lost in translation" defense. Sammy Sosa also tried that sitting in front of the Senate steriod panel. People saw through it.

How long has Guillen been collecting a check in this country? Decades? He knows what is acceptable and unacceptable.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

so major league baseball suspended ozzie guillen for one game for telling his pitcher to hit another bater... but did not suspend him for his comments.

swell.

 

[phanan]

But he has to attend sensitivity training!

I agree that sometimes we make too much of things, but I don't think this is one of those times. He should have been suspended a couple of games at least...

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

so major league baseball suspended ozzie guillen for one game for telling his pitcher to hit another bater... but did not suspend him for his comments.

swell.

He was fined as well as being ordered to attend sensitivity training.

 

[U2DMfan]

if a coach of a professional sports team started using slurs that refer to blacks, or jews, or hispanics i highly doubt anyone would see it as "no big deal" or that i "need to get my priorities checked."

there would be outrage. we wouldn't even be discussing it, because he would have already been fired.

imagine if the context was changed... imagine if he used the N word, and then played it off by saying "oh i don't have anything against those people." he stereotyped in his appology for pete's sake.

i'm sorry if i feel this is a much bigger issue than some of you do, but i do... pretending to make this an issue instead of addressing the real problem? don't you think the fact that he can make comments like this and people are shrugging it off is part of the real problem?

unbelievable...

Just to explain what I said a little further, I'm not shrugging off homophobia at all, I just think it's language as opposed to something that could actually do harm. I could have used better phrases than "pretending to be outraged", I know there are sincere problems with his use of language. I apologize for that.

I wasn't trying to imply that anyone needed to get their priorities straight either, that's not for me to say, I'm just saying outrages over language don't really adress anything but the public's need to feel outraged and that something will be done about it. Until the next outrage over language. A week or so ago it was Ann Coulter and 9/11 widows.

Concerning homophobia, we don't do anything about it. It's tolerated quite nicely these days. The last bastion of bigotry.
So is Ozzie Guillien to be made a small example of? Does it solve anything? I'm just saying, making a generalization, that as a society we seem to take our eye off the ball when it comes to these political issues, we tend to concentrate on the hot buttons, the language, rather than attack or address what's really the problem. I'm not saying I haven't done the same things, I'm trying to reason as much as anyone else.

The singular use of the term "fag" is not the problem to me. Granted, I'm hetero, but I don't see why that would even make a difference. I'll say fag fag fag until I'm blue in the face, it makes no difference. But if I go to the ballot box and vote for or against the gay marriage bill, that's telling you where my homophobia really stands, the language is just a symptom of society. I think we get hung up on words because it's easier than finding a consistency within ourselves, and that's all I try to do. I'm trying to do for myself what noone else can do. That's prove that I really beleive in equality, and the language I use won't make any real difference because with language there are always lies. Words are used to fool people.

Larry Cochell, the ex-head baseball coach at the University of Oklahoma, was fired for using a racial slur to some broadcasters off the air. He was talking about the kid and trying to compliment him by saying he wasn't a "******". Terrible choice of words, terrible mistake and I think it was right that he was fired immediately for the sake of the University, not because he was a racist. At the end of the day and the public outrage of this situation or Marge Schott, Al Campanis, or Jimmy The Greek, it was all public realtions and how they were representing their employer. The kid Cochell referred to went on local TV here to defend the man for treating him as one of hs own, and forgave his poor use of language. It was just language that did him in, not latent bigotry that slipped out, just words. How do we pretend to know what's in these people's hearts anyways?

Guillien may be fired, and so be it, he won't be able to say he didnt do it to himself, I just think it will be one more casualty of a public realtions problem rather than actually standing up to bigotry. Hope that made a little more sense. It's fine for people to stand up to this, if they think it makes a difference. I don't think it does.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

here-in lies the problem... he wont; be fired. he wasn't even suspended. he was fined and ordered to take sensitivity training.
whoopity doo.

check out the video here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2496753

he does the "air quotes" when he was "appologizing" for "offending" "those people."

this is the third time he's used homophobic slurs... including when he told reporters that a "friend" was "a homosexual" and "a child molester"

he also told a group of japanese reporters that tadahito igushi, a second baseman for the white sox, a "queer."

if a major celebrity or sports figure makes one comment... ONE comment that is deemed to be derogitory towards someone's ethnicity, he gets instant suspensions, black balled, fired... whatever.

this is the third time ozzie guillen has done this, and the only punishment is "sensativity training."

quite the double standard if you ask me.

 

[BVS]

I wasn't trying to imply that anyone needed to get their priorities straight either, that's not for me to say, I'm just saying outrages over language don't really adress anything but the public's need to feel outraged and that something will be done about it.

You can tell you've never been on the butt end of a racial slur, religious slur or anything of that sort...

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

You can tell you've never been on the butt end of a racial slur, religious slur or anything of that sort...

I don't see how you can make that assumption.

Guillen was discussed on the O'Reilly Factor today. Did anyone catch it? I missed it.

The media in Chicago has been covering this for 2 days now. I've reached my saturation point. I'm not outraged over what a dumb-ass MLB manager said about a vile columnist. I'm more outraged that lawmakers in Washington, including the President, want to create a constitutional amendment barring gay marriage. I'm outraged when I read comments here about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell based on sexual orientation. I'm outraged that the churches my students go to teach them to hate gay people and that they bring that hate into my classroom. The thing is, I can't do anything about Ozzie Guillen. I can do something about those kids in my classes. Let MLB deal with the double standards. I'm done bitching about MLB and its problem. My energy is better spent explaining to my students why Guillen was wrong for saying what he did in the first place.

[/rant]