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Old 06-22-2006, 11:30 PM   #31
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I love ozzie, but he did say a bad word

my personal feeling is that the gay community has a lot more problems on their hands than ozzie guillen, espn just blew it over because Mariotti (who is the worst columnist ever) works for ESPN

I agree with the sensitivity training to make sure this doesn't happen again, but overall this is blown out of proportion

heres some of Jay's beautiful job reporting for the whitesox last year:

Jay Mariotti's Year in Review
Since yappy Sun-Times sports columnist Jay Mariotti shows no interest in joining me in feasting on crow, allow me to take you, dear reader, back through the last 12 months of Mariotti's moody musings on the White Sox:

2004

November 17 --(I am) launching a campaign demanding that (Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf) sell the team to a group with the financial means and commitment -- the Comcast Sports empire, perhaps -- to compete for championships in a big market. Otherwise, the Sox might tumble into total irrelevance while The Ballmall Formerly Known as Comiskey Park becomes a sausage factory. Reinsdorf... might as well wave another white flag before next season..... Think I'm underestimating the Sox' chances next year? ... Hell, the Sox might be a .500 club....If (Reinsdorf's) franchise isn't dying, it never has seemed more irrelevant in this town...(What Smart fans) want to know is how the Sox plan to win a World Series. Answer: They won't, as long as Reinsdorf and his people own the team. Please sell it.

December 14 -- Oh, this makes loads of sense, building a slap-and-tickle team to play 81 games in the most power-friendly ballpark in the majors..... Ken Williams is trading mashers for midgets....Amazingly enough, a team that hit a major-league-best 242 homers in 2004 has lost four prime power hitters, including Jose Valentin. And the only attempt to fill the void was Williams' cheapskate signing of injury-hobbled Jermaine Dye, who will make $4 million next year ($10 million less than Ordonez made last season) and is a career .208 hitter with two out and runners in scoring position.....Don't be fooled by (Scott) Podsednik's 2003 National League Rookie of the Year award or his 70 stolen bases last year. This is a leadoff hitter who has trouble leading off, hitting only .244 last season with a lame .313 on-base percentage....When Juan Uribe is a team's third-best hitter, you again start hoping that Reinsdorf sells the franchise while wondering if the general manager has lost his lid.... As long as Jose Contreras is your No. 3 starter and Jon Garland is your No. 4, the Sox can't play OzzieBall.....They don't care about winning and only care about making money.

December 19 --If the Sox had given (former Cub Matt) Clement an extra $5 million and (pitcher Omar) Vizquel an extra year and $3 million, they would have a quality No. 3 starter behind Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle and a fielding wizard to anchor the infield. But because they bid low in both cases, they'll be a .500 team next year. Or worse.

2005

April 4 -- The Sox will win 84 games and miss the playoffs. In a season of questions about health, payrolls and elective styles of baseball, the only certainty is that both (Chicago) clubs will fall short of the St. Louis Cardinals and Minnesota Twins in their divisional races, extending the city's streak of collective seasons without a Series championship to 185. "I go into every season thinking we can win a championship," says Ken Williams, the loopy general manager of the Sox. "I think we have a chance to do great things." They tote the rhetoric. I bring the reality..... I do not believe in Jon Garland and his Cuban clone, Jose Contreras, who needs to make more pitches and tip fewer. .... With Johan Santana locked in (with the Twins) through 2008, the Sox may not win a division title for a while.

April 7 --(The Sox are) Winning Lucky. Groovy as Sox life seems right now, let me assure you that this is no formula for a division title. ...(Jerry Reinsdorf ) and (Ken) Williams have concocted this "new way" of baseball that actually is a euphemism for payroll-crunching.

April 18 -- I stand by my story that the Twins are better... .The Sox are a work in progress; the Twins are the polished product.... Are the Sox ready? I think not.

April 23 --If someone in charge doesn't muzzle Ozzie Guillen with duct tape, inject him with a horse tranquilizer or simply order him to shut the [bleep] up -- his favorite expression, not mine -- the man is going to talk himself out of a job and shame the city and ballclub he represents. .... Guillen's penchant for bizarre, unnecessary controversy is rising at the same approximate rate. ....Guillen is only confirming what his critics said: He's too nuts, off the wall and out of control.

May 6 --The happy news is, this team is 21-7 despite its offensive problems, which suggests Ken Williams' daring transition to thinking-man's baseball -- Small Ball, Smart Ball, Snail Ball, Ozzie Ball, Anti-Magglio Ball, Ducksnort Ball -- is his most successful gamble yet in an otherwise lukewarm career as general manager. ....Maybe this is a magically conceived team with purring chemistry and the perfect attitude. ...there are legitimate reasons to think the Sox will contend deep into September.

May 15 --(The Sox) have the sweetest rotation in the sport ....And while I'm not about to predict they'll be the first local team in 187 collective seasons to win a World Series, they are built to last deep into September.

May 19-- I've always asked the Sox to place their media-bashing energies into assembling a pennant contender. Now ... Ken Williams seems to have done that.

May 21 --It should surprise no one.. that the Sox would rise impressively.... the Sox seem poised for glory.

May 25 -- The Sox are the biggest overachievers in baseball.

May 30--You can't chip and dink out runs for 162 games and expect your starting pitchers to bail out the cause every time. ...Excuse me, but are those the Minnesota Twins only 3 1/2 games back now? Pardon me, but have the Sox sunk to ninth in the American League in runs scored after managing 17 in their last seven games?

June 7 -- I can safely say the Sox won't win a World Series as long as (Jerry Reinsdorf) owns them.

June 14 --I could .... concur that the rotation is the best we've ever seen, point out that the White Sox are the 12th team since 1996 to take a winning percentage of .673 or better into June, further point out that 10 of the previous 11 made the playoffs... and then conclude, This is definitely is the year!" But that would be a lie. And I sure don't want to lie to anybody.... Will (Ken) Williams recognize his Joe Crede problem and pursue Shea Hillenbrand?....The Sox still don't have enough offense, and given the struggles of the Yankees and Red Sox, Williams should be driven to spend the necessary money and make the bold deals.

June 21 -- I will state for the record today, on the bosom of Hawk Harrelson, that the Sox are crash-proof in this regular season. You may as well sit back and enjoy the next 31/2 months. They are not going to miss the playoffs. Hear me? The aren't choking. Got that?

June 24 -- Guillen's feistiness has a magical effect on the Sox.

July 4-- Destiny is a dangerous word at midseason. It connotes a contentment that shouldn't exist with a team that, realistically, isn't quite as good as its record. No doubt the Sox are heading to the playoffs....The hot debate among Sox fans is whether Ken Williams, Executive of the Half-Year, should be a major, minor or non-player in the trading period. That's easy. When you haven't won the World Series since dinosaurs roamed the earth -- or, in Carl Everett's non-Jurassic world, since Adam and Eve hooked up -- you only can be a major player. This will shock and anger many Soxheads, but as a public service, I will submit that the Angels and Red Sox are slightly more equipped to win the American League pennant.

July 19 --- I'm not saying the Sox can't win the pennant. I'm just saying they have to load up on reinforcements when the American League competition includes Boston, New York, Anaheim and Minnesota...History looms. It matters not if the Sox are 62-29 on July 19 if they lose three of five to a wild-card team -- the Red Sox or Yankees, I presume -- in the divisional round of the AL playoffs.

July 30-- Williams insists the Sox don't need major roster surgery, but I couldn't disagree more.

July 31--All I know is this: If 3 p.m. rolls around and Ken Williams has not made a significant trade, perspective will succumb to the usual paranoia in Sox precincts everywhere. Because this franchise will have jeopardized its best World Series shot in years... As presently constituted, I doubt the Sox are as equipped to win the pennant as, say, the Disneyland Angels, who have won a recent World Series and have the American League's most complete team. Or the Red Sox, who finally won it all last year and are so big on midseason shakeups that they're shopping Manny Ramirez after successfully dumping Nomar Garciaparra last summer. ...Today is the day the season is won or lost on the South Side.

August 15--- For all his talents as a skipper, Guillen is a loose-lipped disaster as a representative of his team, city and sport.

August 17-- You might be under the influence of Hawk Harrelson, but for non-homers who analyze baseball at face value, the Sox are vulnerable because their attack lacks punch. ....Remember that sick feeling in Seattle (in the 2000 playoffs) after the sweep? To avoid it again, Williams has to find a big bat.

August 20 --Only a fool thinks a scratch-and-tickle offense doesn't need Ken Griffey Jr.... A theme is emerging, and it isn't pretty for the South Siders. Barring an unforeseen deal by general manager Ken Williams, who is too protective of team chemistry and not focused enough on reality, the Sox will enter the postseason with one of the tamer offensive lineups in recent memory -- which places incredible pressure on starting pitchers to throw great games... I subscribe to a growing theory that the club's playoff fate is most dependent on Garland.

August 21-- When you see the Sox morph into a limp, feeble club that can't piece together a run, much less win a game -- I mean, is it wrong to mention early similarities to 1969? --....is it not fair to wonder if a vintage Chicago baseball gag is unfolding? Anywhere else, they'd call it a speed bump, a minor rut. In Chicago, it's reason for primal scream therapy. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!....Enough with the romantic concept of protecting four months of fine chemistry.

August 24 -- Tuesday night in Minnesota, the Sox lost their most agonizing game yet in what has been a maddening, unnerving skid in Choke City. ....This is supposed to be a season of history. Instead, the Sox are dipping into infamy. .... Serious baseball people have been waiting for them to fold all year, figuring they are playing over their heads because they haven't put together success against elite teams. At the moment, the Sox are making the doomsayers look smart.

September 1 --The final, final, final trading deadline passed late Wednesday night without activity, leaving the Sox with one of the flimsiest batting orders of any contender in years. (The Sox are) a downwardly spiraling imposter that has little chance to win a postseason series, unless ominous patterns unexpectedly turn bright in coming weeks...... Buehrle doesn't have his stuff. You don't know what you're getting from Garland. El Duque is fading. Dustin Hermanson still has an iffy back. The team looks tired. The defense has been woeful. The lineup has too many automatic outs. The Sox aren't playing well at home. Who is Geoff Blum, anyway?

September 18-- If there is any sense of mercy, the White Sox will be blacked out the rest of the season so a terminally cursed city needn't witness The Mother of All Collapses. .... I have been opining since the summer trade deadlines -- in this column, on national TV, on every media outlet not controlled by Soxaganda -- that the boys are vulnerable to a classic choke job because management didn't bring in reinforcements....(Ken) Williams was foolishly protective of clubhouse chemistry ....The Sox have been a house of cards all along ...It was unrealistic to think smart ball would hold up all season when the concept was so dependent on pitching. ... A recipe for October success, this is not. The next 14 days and nights will be hell for the Sox, their fans and a city sick of applying the Heimlich maneuver. Watch at your own risk.

September 20 --Other cities host the World Series. Chicago hosts Choke Job Theater....Part of our lot in life is that the local baseball teams are destined to tease, crash and burn.....The Sox are deluding themselves if they believe Bobby Jenks -- a 270-pound rookie reliever -- can stop a historic free-fall. Who do they think he is, Ricky [Wild Thing] Vaughn of "Major League" fame?.... The thing about chemistry is, sometimes the test tube explodes and leaves your dreams in pieces. .... Whether the Sox go on to finish the biggest regular-season fold in baseball history or somehow do a backdoor slider into the playoffs, it should be obvious now that the rampaging Indians are a much better team and are worthier of the American League Central title.

September 22 --The Wheeze Sox....(are) pressing and gagging, contrary to the protests of Ozzie Guillen and the pig-like wails of Hawk Harrelson, who should be put out of his misery.....Oh ye of too much faith. The Sox aren't good enough to think beyond the next game....So, this dark, doomsday drama inevitably careens toward a final three-game series in Cleveland ... Williams failed to make the club better at midseason and left the Sox vulnerable.... Yes, it was difficult to make deals this year. But the best organizations always get their man ... and the Sox only got Geoff Blum.

September 27 -- Do you honestly think this team can do the slightest damage in the playoffs, assuming the Sox don ' t squander what is now a two-game divisional lead and two-game lead for the wild card? ...Just why are the Sox playing for October when they clearly don ' t belong there?

October 2-- I can't see the Sox beating the Angels (in the playoffs).

October 3 -- What is impressive about the Sox is how unified they've remained through all the stress. Some teams would have divided and pointed fingers during a slide that saw a 15-game lead shrink to 11/2 games, but not once did we hear a peep of dissension.

October 4-- I've been trying to tell out-of-towners that Guillen has been a terrific manager.

October 5----Ozzie Ball isn't about an on-field approach as much as the unity he cultivates in the clubhouse. He has their backs, and they have his -- even when he's pulling a stunt.

October 6 ---I caution that the American League Division Series is not the World Series, euphoric as the feeling is right now.

October 11--one important Sox executive seems to have his head on straight at the right time. General manager Ken Williams has occasionally sparred with media and fans since inheriting the hot seat five years ago at age 36, but he has a mature perspective about the precious presen

October 12-- When they should have swatted away the Los Angeles Angels and turned these world travelers into road worriers, they instead blew a wonderful opportunity and returned to that wheezing mode we saw last month.But letting the Angels wiggle off the hook isn't a proud moment -- and might be remembered as the night that sunk the Sox and continued the futile postseason history of a city.

October 13 -- Maybe, dare I say, the rewards are finally coming.

October 16 -- You can feel the gathering eruption, a convergence of crashing and booming that comes when 45 years of frustration are trumped by rare autumn rewards. The White Sox, once a nondescript franchise of inferiority complexes and White Flag trades and fans who tackle umpires, are one victory from the World Series.... I never thought it would happen, and if you check your inner conscience, neither did you.

October 17-- The team that once fixed a World Series is now fixing to win one. Yes, the White Sox have proved me wrong. They've proved millions of others around the country wrong, too.....There's also no doubt they survived a lack of serious activity at the trade deadline, which could have been their undoing..... Williams received the most flak after huffing, puffing, dialing, roaming and ultimately missing on a couple of would-be deals, but no one was happier by the GM's whiff job than Guillen.

October 20 -- What they've accomplished so far is incredible stuff, having established a blueprint for how to overhaul a franchise culture in a single offseason and how to play the game in the post-steroids era. Williams gambled his professional reputation and pulled off a dramatic metamorphosis, making him Executive of the Year. Ozzie Guillen thumbed his nose at the world and became a players' leader for the new millennium, making him Manager of the Year. Reinsdorf proved a ballclub can reach the Series in a major market with a middle-market payroll.

October 21 -- They've won with the kind of smart, unselfish, high-character, pitching-and-defense charm that defies everything we've seen from baseball in recent seasons....The Sox are about pure baseball.

October 23 --Not only are the Sox in the World Series, they're up a game. No one, it's safe to say, has stopped believing.

October 26-- In the top of the 14th inning, well into the fifth hour, (Geoff Blum) lined a solo home run into the right-field seats at Minute Maid Park...Who was smiling more? Blum or Ken Williams, the general manager who traded for him, then had to defend it as his only move? All the while, the Sox are only one win away. Say it again: one win away.

October 27 --Wednesday night, the White Sox won the friggin' World Series....One of those fighting tears was Jerry Reinsdorf, who stood in the Sox clubhouse with his longtime friend and partner in crime, Bud Selig, and accepted the trophy. Have I sparred with Reinsdorf through the years? Yes. Was I happy the man finally won? Yes. ...Unlike the Cubs, the Sox didn't choke. They smoked, oozing of Ozzie and melding before our eyes in Williams' test tube.....What they did, thanks to the feisty leadership of Guillen and foresight of Williams, was write a new blueprint on how baseball might be played in the post-steroids era.
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Old 06-23-2006, 02:52 AM   #32
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I don't see how you can make that assumption.

The post that I was referring to stated that language didn't matter.

Nigger, kike, spick, wetback, fag, etc...they all have negative and often violent connotations. For someone to dismiss this as, "hey it's just a word", shows me they have never been on the receiving end of one of these words.

Thats all that I was saying.
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Old 06-23-2006, 03:25 AM   #33
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Originally posted by randhail
I'd like to see Mariotti get fired too because he's a complete douchebag.
Thankyou. I hate mariotti, of course espn defends him cause he works for them. Why would you fire anyone who wins championships regardless of how much they hate a particular writer and describes him w/ a derogatory slur. I doubt guillen meant to offend anyone, and it's not like he's the only one who's ever made a mistake using a derogatory slur. The guy who said guillen should be fired is an idiot, maybe if he pulls a john rocker, then would we fire him, but what he did to mariotti isn't even close.
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Old 06-23-2006, 03:55 AM   #34
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doubt guillen meant to offend anyone, and it's not like he's the only one who's ever made a mistake using a derogatory slur. The guy who said guillen should be fired is an idiot, maybe if he pulls a john rocker, then would we fire him, but what he did to mariotti isn't even close.
You are missing the point.

If we just dismiss derogatory slurs as regular languange, then we accelerate the prejudice towards these people...
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Old 06-23-2006, 03:28 PM   #35
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that people have taken this as a way to bash jay mariotti more is quite amusing.

the fact that he said these things about jay mariotti is secondary... he's done it at least two other times that the media has witnessed to people who aren't named jay mariotti, ok?
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Old 06-25-2006, 11:27 AM   #36
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I'm curious if anyone thinks Phillies pitcher Brett Myers should have been disciplined for beating his wife the other night on a Boston street, or perhaps that isn't a big deal, either.

Apparently, MLB doesn't think it is - he was allowed to start yesterday...
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:40 PM   #37
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
if a coach of a professional sports team started using slurs that refer to blacks, or jews, or hispanics i highly doubt anyone would see it as "no big deal" or that i "need to get my priorities checked."

there would be outrage. we wouldn't even be discussing it, because he would have already been fired.

imagine if the context was changed... imagine if he used the N word, and then played it off by saying "oh i don't have anything against those people." he stereotyped in his appology for pete's sake.

i'm sorry if i feel this is a much bigger issue than some of you do, but i do... pretending to make this an issue instead of addressing the real problem? don't you think the fact that he can make comments like this and people are shrugging it off is part of the real problem?

unbelievable...
You know what I find unbelievable? The way you're making this sound like a horrendous crime.

If you knew how culture is in latin america, you'd know that the word "marica" or other words with the same connotation is used to describe someone with no courage. A coward.

I'm 100% sure that's the way this guy meant the word and you refuse to see it. I don't know if it's stubbornes on your behalf or just boredom but really ...relax, man.

I tell you, you USA-tians have way too many comfortings, maybe if you had more things to worry about you wouldn't be throwing a hissy fit over a word.

In latin america, the majority of us are more worried about what we're going to eat today.
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:44 PM   #38
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The fact of the matter is, it happened in the U.S. Yes, this country gets way uptight too many times, but if you're here, you'd better get used to it.

If I said a word that was very offensive in Latin America, but not in the U.S., I'm sure it would cause an uproar there as well.

He's smart enough to realize what he said was stupid. I don't think it was too much to ask to suspend him for a couple of games in order to get the message across that he needs to keep his mouth shut more often.

The ironic thing is, if MLB had disciplined him straight away, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as there is now.
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:55 PM   #39
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If I said a word that was very offensive in Latin America, but not in the U.S., I'm sure it would cause an uproar there as well.

I'm here with brown eyed boy.... and even if you said the worst word on tv in Latin america... we would be surprised for like.... 20 minutes and we would go with our lives on.... like Brown eyed boy said, we have important things to worry about
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Old 06-25-2006, 03:17 PM   #40
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Oh, believe me. I don't lose any sleep over it, and most others don't, either. But he should have been suspended, anyway - just like Myers should have for hitting his wife the other night...
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Old 06-25-2006, 03:54 PM   #41
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I fail to see how beating your wife and being arrested for it is similar to using a slur.

People are not arrested for using the word fag or retard when talking about someone. As offensive as those words are they are not similar to domestic abuse. To compare them to domestic abuse is an insult to people who have experienced physical violence in the home.
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Old 06-25-2006, 05:26 PM   #42
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in jay mariottis column today he was explaining why he never goes into the sox clubhouse again...

he said that one time in baltimore a naked ozzie came up and started pretending to have sex with ozzie, and named various other altercations, but they seem like normal lockerroom behavior (which isn't all that good either but I'm sure other writers deal with it)


Jay just has unrealistic expectations of how he should be treated

c'mon jay, cut the crap because we all lost respect for you so just get out of town and stop covering a team you don't like
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Old 06-25-2006, 09:49 PM   #43
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
I fail to see how beating your wife and being arrested for it is similar to using a slur.

People are not arrested for using the word fag or retard when talking about someone. As offensive as those words are they are not similar to domestic abuse. To compare them to domestic abuse is an insult to people who have experienced physical violence in the home.
You totally missed my point. They are two completely different things, yes, but in my opinion, both of them were scenarios where MLB did absolutely nothing about it when they should have. Did I ever say that using a slur of any kind was the same as domestic violence? No - but I did state my opinion that both of them deserved some kind of disciplinary action.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:41 PM   #44
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I'm curious if anyone thinks Phillies pitcher Brett Myers should have been disciplined for beating his wife the other night on a Boston street, or perhaps that isn't a big deal, either.

Apparently, MLB doesn't think it is - he was allowed to start yesterday...
The "or perhaps that isn't a big deal either" is what I have a problem with. I don't appreciate the sarcasm. The fact that you grouped domestic abuse and the use of a slur as "big deals" is what I took from this. If I missed your point it's b/c you didn't do a good job making it clear.
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Old 06-25-2006, 11:28 PM   #45
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I do indeed look at both of them as "big deals" when taking into account that both are public figures and people look to them to set proper examples. But as I said before, other than talking about both scenarios in a MLB setting, I never once mentioned that a slur was the same as domestic abuse.

I'm actually quite surprised that you would make that assumption otherwise, regardless if my wording of it wasn't clear enough, but whatever...
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