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Old 06-22-2006, 12:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar
I think Marge Schott was sanctioned for similar types of comments in the 90s, so maybe a similar standard should be used.


she said that Hitler was good for Germany ... at first.

silly old lady.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:31 PM   #17
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


so what about what muggsy said?


I completely agree with U2DMfan, there is a larger problem at hand here.
Problem is...he's not in Latin America and has to be more cautious with his wording. Call the guy a coward if that is what he meant.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:35 PM   #18
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Sorry I misunderstood you, WHA.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:52 PM   #19
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I'd like to see Mariotti get fired too because he's a complete douchebag.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




she said that Hitler was good for Germany ... at first.

silly old lady.
he made so many nice highways


the problem with guillen is that this is not the first time he's made comments along these lines.

Quote:
Last August, also at the end of a pregame session with reporters in the dugout at Yankee Stadium, Guillen loudly greeted an old friend: "Hey everybody, this guy's a homosexual! He's a child molester!"

Guillen said then, and again Wednesday, he has no problem with homosexuals, and mentioned cultural differences between the USA and his native Venezuela.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...y_x.htm?csp=34


this is a pattern, not just an isolated incident.
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:37 PM   #21
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Originally posted by AEON
I still hear many people use that term. While using profanity of any sort usually demonstrates a lack of self control, those using the term are usually not saying the person is a homosexual - they are just saying the person is a "wus" or "weak." The word has changed meaning from when I was in high school.
Considering a common stereotype of gay men is that they are wusses and weaklings, isn't using the word "fag" in this context still a slam against homosexuals?
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:39 PM   #22
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Considering a common stereotype of gay men is that they are wusses and weaklings, isn't using the word "fag" in this context still a slam against homosexuals?


bingo.
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:49 PM   #23
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Re: "I don't have anything against those people."

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Before writing the column, Couch asked Guillen for an explanation. Guillen defended his use of the term "fag" by saying this about homosexuals and the use of the word in question: "I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country.''
The "lost in translation" defense. Sammy Sosa also tried that sitting in front of the Senate steriod panel. People saw through it.

How long has Guillen been collecting a check in this country? Decades? He knows what is acceptable and unacceptable.
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:15 PM   #24
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so major league baseball suspended ozzie guillen for one game for telling his pitcher to hit another bater... but did not suspend him for his comments.

swell.
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:50 PM   #25
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But he has to attend sensitivity training!

I agree that sometimes we make too much of things, but I don't think this is one of those times. He should have been suspended a couple of games at least...
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:18 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
so major league baseball suspended ozzie guillen for one game for telling his pitcher to hit another bater... but did not suspend him for his comments.

swell.
He was fined as well as being ordered to attend sensitivity training.
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
if a coach of a professional sports team started using slurs that refer to blacks, or jews, or hispanics i highly doubt anyone would see it as "no big deal" or that i "need to get my priorities checked."

there would be outrage. we wouldn't even be discussing it, because he would have already been fired.

imagine if the context was changed... imagine if he used the N word, and then played it off by saying "oh i don't have anything against those people." he stereotyped in his appology for pete's sake.

i'm sorry if i feel this is a much bigger issue than some of you do, but i do... pretending to make this an issue instead of addressing the real problem? don't you think the fact that he can make comments like this and people are shrugging it off is part of the real problem?

unbelievable...
Just to explain what I said a little further, I'm not shrugging off homophobia at all, I just think it's language as opposed to something that could actually do harm. I could have used better phrases than "pretending to be outraged", I know there are sincere problems with his use of language. I apologize for that.

I wasn't trying to imply that anyone needed to get their priorities straight either, that's not for me to say, I'm just saying outrages over language don't really adress anything but the public's need to feel outraged and that something will be done about it. Until the next outrage over language. A week or so ago it was Ann Coulter and 9/11 widows.

Concerning homophobia, we don't do anything about it. It's tolerated quite nicely these days. The last bastion of bigotry.
So is Ozzie Guillien to be made a small example of? Does it solve anything? I'm just saying, making a generalization, that as a society we seem to take our eye off the ball when it comes to these political issues, we tend to concentrate on the hot buttons, the language, rather than attack or address what's really the problem. I'm not saying I haven't done the same things, I'm trying to reason as much as anyone else.

The singular use of the term "fag" is not the problem to me. Granted, I'm hetero, but I don't see why that would even make a difference. I'll say fag fag fag until I'm blue in the face, it makes no difference. But if I go to the ballot box and vote for or against the gay marriage bill, that's telling you where my homophobia really stands, the language is just a symptom of society. I think we get hung up on words because it's easier than finding a consistency within ourselves, and that's all I try to do. I'm trying to do for myself what noone else can do. That's prove that I really beleive in equality, and the language I use won't make any real difference because with language there are always lies. Words are used to fool people.

Larry Cochell, the ex-head baseball coach at the University of Oklahoma, was fired for using a racial slur to some broadcasters off the air. He was talking about the kid and trying to compliment him by saying he wasn't a "nigger". Terrible choice of words, terrible mistake and I think it was right that he was fired immediately for the sake of the University, not because he was a racist. At the end of the day and the public outrage of this situation or Marge Schott, Al Campanis, or Jimmy The Greek, it was all public realtions and how they were representing their employer. The kid Cochell referred to went on local TV here to defend the man for treating him as one of hs own, and forgave his poor use of language. It was just language that did him in, not latent bigotry that slipped out, just words. How do we pretend to know what's in these people's hearts anyways?

Guillien may be fired, and so be it, he won't be able to say he didnt do it to himself, I just think it will be one more casualty of a public realtions problem rather than actually standing up to bigotry. Hope that made a little more sense. It's fine for people to stand up to this, if they think it makes a difference. I don't think it does.
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:38 PM   #28
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here-in lies the problem... he wont; be fired. he wasn't even suspended. he was fined and ordered to take sensitivity training.
whoopity doo.

check out the video here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2496753

he does the "air quotes" when he was "appologizing" for "offending" "those people."

this is the third time he's used homophobic slurs... including when he told reporters that a "friend" was "a homosexual" and "a child molester"

he also told a group of japanese reporters that tadahito igushi, a second baseman for the white sox, a "queer."

if a major celebrity or sports figure makes one comment... ONE comment that is deemed to be derogitory towards someone's ethnicity, he gets instant suspensions, black balled, fired... whatever.

this is the third time ozzie guillen has done this, and the only punishment is "sensativity training."

quite the double standard if you ask me.
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:55 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan


I wasn't trying to imply that anyone needed to get their priorities straight either, that's not for me to say, I'm just saying outrages over language don't really adress anything but the public's need to feel outraged and that something will be done about it.
You can tell you've never been on the butt end of a racial slur, religious slur or anything of that sort...
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Old 06-22-2006, 09:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You can tell you've never been on the butt end of a racial slur, religious slur or anything of that sort...
I don't see how you can make that assumption.

Guillen was discussed on the O'Reilly Factor today. Did anyone catch it? I missed it.

The media in Chicago has been covering this for 2 days now. I've reached my saturation point. I'm not outraged over what a dumb-ass MLB manager said about a vile columnist. I'm more outraged that lawmakers in Washington, including the President, want to create a constitutional amendment barring gay marriage. I'm outraged when I read comments here about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell based on sexual orientation. I'm outraged that the churches my students go to teach them to hate gay people and that they bring that hate into my classroom. The thing is, I can't do anything about Ozzie Guillen. I can do something about those kids in my classes. Let MLB deal with the double standards. I'm done bitching about MLB and its problem. My energy is better spent explaining to my students why Guillen was wrong for saying what he did in the first place.

[/rant]
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