I don't belive it - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-27-2004, 06:11 PM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:25 PM
I don't belive it

My faith in the Iranian leadership has been shattered, yes shattered. These proud Mullah's of Peace may be running a secret nuclear program for millitary purposes and not telling the Europeans or UN while they were agreeing to not do this, what type of world is it where you cannot trust the Iranian leadership to keep their word. I think that this calls for a stern letter to be written or perhaps the threat of resolution calling for them to consider stopping this - threats to talk about action must be taken!

I can only hope that the end product of the Iranian nuclear ambition is not millions of vapourised civilians and the some of the world saying "if only we thought then" while the rest danced in the streets.

link
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:12 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
iran has always seemed like more of a threat to me than iraq. they need me in washington!!




__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:20 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:25 PM
The way I see it, Iran already has our generation coming up and they have no great love for the theocracy, war is not the answer we must give support to the students and expose the crimes of the Mullahs. Change there will come from within, the conditions are different than Iraq. Not only that but in terms of strategic goals Iran is much stronger than Iraq, they could wipe out the revolutionary guard and all the millitary but the magnitude of any insurgency would be greater than that in Iraq, the only thing that would soften the blow is that without the Iranian government backing the insurgency (as they do in Iraq today) it would not be as strong.

Iraq on the other hand is a different situation in terms of ethnic groups, history, military situation and leadership. Iraq and Iran are linked in so many ways, when Iraq is free, democratic and safe the days of the Mullah's in Iran will be numbered. I give them 2 decades tops.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:21 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
I agree that we need to support the students of Iran. The future of their country is up to them.
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:32 PM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:25 PM
The internal Iranian politics are pretty much two sides of the same coin, the reformists and "conservatives" do not offer that many differences. I certainly think that a stable, secular and democratic Iraq will benifit the region broadly, you cannot bomb democracy into every last country, but if you secure one and pour efforts there and suceed - it will be a reverse domino effect and unlike the false analogy of the domino effect in Indochina falling to communism the benefits in this case will give the effort momentum. The only way to win the GWOT is to remove the support that the Islamists recieve, not by sitting on your hands and waiting to be attacked, not by backing more bastard dictators to supress dissent rather providing a genuine alternative to political Islam, I think that the 20th Century shows that liberal democratic principles build on the foundation of universal human rights and equality is that system, it works - simple as that, transformed Europe, built America, remade Japan. I think that the change of Turkey from the Caliphate to a secular democracy and the sucess to be found demonstrates that one can strike a seperation of the powers even in the ashes of theocracy. There is no reason to assume that simply because the Arab world today is filled with Cold War hangovers from both the USA and USSR, religious fanatics and poverty that it cannot get better. Human beings are more or less the same the world over and if they can be safe and prosperous then concepts of democracy and liberty appear very quickly (case in point Indonesia during the economic meltdown, the new middle class was able to initiate political change against Soeharto which brought about more political freedoms).

The concequences of inaction tragically tend to be greater than those of action (WWII for instance occured due to the tempered view of peace in our time, Rwanda was an example of inaction - it is a tragedy of history that there is no magic wand but we must live in the world as it is to make it what it can be) I am not saying that this justifies all action Cart Blanche rather that we are faced with a unique threat and we must come up with a no bullshit solution for it. I think that the solution is liberalisation of the Arab/Muslim world - not to remake them in the image of the west with Starbucks, internet porn and Coca Cola - but general political freedom, economic development and good leadership. It has been working in Asia very well to this day and does not constitute some sort of imperial conquest to subjegate and enslave populations.

I am not saying that we should conquest every dissagreable nation and rain fire down upon every last enemy state and justify it in some vague axiom of "freedom". That would lead to failure, simple as that. Do it and do it properly in very specific cases (such as Iraq, where we are allready far in), it is like a foothold.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:35 PM   #6
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
ah, my man is so smart.
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:41 PM   #7
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:25 PM
Well my girls got that political savy working for her.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:43 PM   #8
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:45 PM   #9
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
just tell me, do you have a really hot aussie accent?!?!? i hope you like tennessee accents
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:54 PM   #10
War Child
 
Windmilllane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: My life sucks
Posts: 933
Local Time: 05:25 AM
Get a room, U2
__________________
Windmilllane is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 06:58 PM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM





goodness i didn't realize there were people watching!
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 07:09 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:25 PM
LOL, my accent is interesting. It is not some skippy dinky-di crocodile hunter thing - seems to be more of a general accent. I practiced public speaking by reciting speeches and can do a pretty good Churchill and Kennedy.

Funny anecdote - on a 20 hour bus trip (the airliner for the school trip went bankrupt and we had to take a bus) I had been doing a play prior and by about hour 18 during a conversation my accent switched into character for a few sentences.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 07:22 PM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
oooooooh a man of many accents. even better!
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 07:26 PM   #14
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 03:25 PM
The greek was the funniest, there is nothing harder than trying to develop an accent in a foreign language.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 07:30 PM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 05:25 AM
ha i bet. you really like the greeks, don't you?
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com