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Old 11-27-2004, 03:37 PM   #91
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to joerags:

One extrabiblical attestation to the life of Jesus:

Josephus, a Roman historian, records Jesus' life and death in a few sentences in one of his annals.

That aside, it is curious that the world's largest organized religion is based on the life of a person you claim never existed. I think the burden of proof is on you, no matter how many times you "repeat" it for us.

I've always wondered how four different authors from four different communities wound up constructing strikingly similar narratives about the life of a seemingly random itinerant preacher from the Galilean countryside all within a few decades of his death (I'm thinking of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John...and those are just the four in the Bible). Add to those the list of letters written about him even closer to his crucifixion and you've got something that needs serious attention. I'm not one that into proving the existence of God or Jesus with logic, but you have to admit that set of coincidences is extremely uncanny.

Of course, the truly Christian response to joerag's claim would not be to argue that Jesus once existed, but that he still exists now, risen from the dead!

And that's something no one would logically argue for you, joerags.
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Old 11-27-2004, 03:47 PM   #92
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Agreed. In Rome, in the year 93 AD, the secular Roman historian Flavius Josephus published his extensive history of the Jews. In discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, Josephus included an account of Jesus of Nazareth's life and crucifiction.

There's a least two other historical accounts....not might sound like a lot but historians have taken less accounts to be proof of life for other historical figures.


Musta posted at the same time, PWMartin!


I also find Luke's account interesting....he was a DOCTOR for crying out loud and he testifies to all this.
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Old 11-27-2004, 04:03 PM   #93
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And I have to say that, across the board and with very few exceptions, all of the most intelligent, most interesting people I've ever met or known have been ardent Christians or other people of faith (no offense to those nonbelievers in here. I'm sure you're wonderful, too!). Now, this could be due to the fact that I'm a westerner and that I've not opened myself to knowning many figures outside of the faith, but I'd like to think of myself as a fairly well-travelled, well-educated person. I'm inclined to give those people I admire the benefit of the doubt that their belief must be well-founded.
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Old 11-27-2004, 05:36 PM   #94
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There's more than just Josephus.

But sooo many people just dismiss the whole thing as myth without really doing any homework.

Mark
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Old 11-27-2004, 05:45 PM   #95
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Jesus is a historical figure, there is a lot of politics and luck behind his rise to prominence over the years. One does not need to eliminate the existence of the man to justify the absence of belief. I was reading a fascinating set of books and articles on the Greco-Buddhist influence on both the West and Orient on art, philosophy and religion, there are quite a few who think that it is from this that the Christian tenents arose.
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Old 11-28-2004, 12:45 PM   #96
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I wish people were MUCH MORE CAREFUL when they try to associate Jesus with politics. I can't be sure of everything Jesus would approve of, I don't think anyone can. I find it a strength in a lot of ways when a politician is a believer, because I can relate to them. I just don't like it when they claim "This is Jesus' war" or "Freedom is God's gift to humanity." That's taking it way too far. I think eternity is God's gift to humanity, and I don't know why we've made it anymore than that so carelessly.
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Old 11-28-2004, 01:05 PM   #97
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I wish people were MUCH MORE CAREFUL when they try to associate Jesus with politics. I can't be sure of everything Jesus would approve of, I don't think anyone can. I find it a strength in a lot of ways when a politician is a believer, because I can relate to them. I just don't like it when they claim "This is Jesus' war" or "Freedom is God's gift to humanity." That's taking it way too far. I think eternity is God's gift to humanity, and I don't know why we've made it anymore than that so carelessly.
I agree. I think there is alot of carelessness going on as per claiming God is with Political Campaign X. God doesn't belong to a political party or nationality.
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