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Old 11-27-2004, 07:05 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
There was a Council of Nicea....what you are saying was accomplished is not accurate.
There were many Christian "SECTS" at the time. Each with their own distinct flavor and traditions. There was no ONE organized Christian group. Many disagreed with each other.

Frontline (PBS) just did a show on the formation of the church. The one thing that was abundantly clear is that the Councils were formed by the Emporer. The Emporer wanted on CODIFIED set of beliefs. The Christian Sects that did not fall into line with the CODIFIED beliefs were persecuted and eliminated.

I would say this, that to ignore the political ramminifications of the Councils, would be silly to do. If they are not accurate, that is for you or I to decide in our hearts.

My beliefs are that these councils argued about DOCTRINE and RULES for salvation, that quite honestly I think God is bigger than......
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:06 AM   #77
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Originally posted by Lil'Bono
Joerags i have to say i believe a lot of the things you are saying. But that doesn't mean i'm criticising the rest of you!! I have a lot of respect for people who believe in god, it takes a lot of faith to believe in something you haven't seen!!
Although i don't believe in god, i do believe in heaven and hell. Because we're all living in hell right now and when we die we are in heaven,because we don't have to deal with the pain of this life anymore!!
But i guess this is a whole different topic of debate!!
I don't really think life is hell. Life is a series of up's and downs. You take the rough with the smooth. :lotsofcliches:

Quote:
What's going on in Northern Ireland
People seem to have this impression that Northern Ireland is still very much a troubled zone when really it's pretty calm here.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:11 AM   #78
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I am kind of surprised there is not a reaction to the Bono quote I put in at the beginning of the thread....

Doesn't the scientific aspect of this count?
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:38 AM   #79
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Alot of early church history is the political struggle over who was going to control the church. The emperors wanted to control it, the bishops wanted to control it, and there were numerous disputes over the whole thing. It got more complicated when the Pope crowned Charlemagne Holy Roman Emperor. At least one historian thinks that that was a huge mistake. Charlemagne flat out told the pope that the Emperor was supposed to run the church and the pope was supposed to stick to prayer. As late as 1870 there was a huge dispute between the Pope and the newly formed Italian government over the whole thing (Italy had just been politically united for the first time since the Roman Empire period). In 1929 they settled for making Vatican City a temporal state, complete with its own political apparatus, within the country of Italy.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:42 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am kind of surprised there is not a reaction to the Bono quote I put in at the beginning of the thread....

Doesn't the scientific aspect of this count?
I love it!

Quote:
The Big bang was of the perfect strength to cause the creation of the universe as we know it. Any stronger and the force of the explosion would have made the formation of matter impossible, the energy of the explosion would have continued outward in the form of radio waves. Any less powerful and the pull back to the center caused by gravity would have have instantly sucked everything blown out back into the tiny pinpointwhere it all started. That this occured has made possible the formation of all matter, in the form off gas - the substance of all stars, and all other substances liquids and solids, the threshhold for the existance of matter is so tiny that the existance of the universe is either the greatest fluke immaginable or the inevitable result of some creative influence. Gravity is a mysterious thing. There is not enough real matter to account for theapparent gravitational form that can be observed, influencing x-rays as they travel through the universe, we have invented a theoretical material called dark matter. A substance that has all of the properties of normal stuff, but is invisible. This dark matter is five times more common than natural visible matter.
It was fun to read the quote while flipping the book around in many directions - so thank you for writing it down.

I have 2 questions regarding it - Was it Bono, the Edge or someone else that wrote it? Edge gets credit for Maze of Words.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:59 AM   #81
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Originally posted by BostonAnne


I love it!



It was fun to read the quote while flipping the book around in many directions - so thank you for writing it down.

I have 2 questions regarding it - Was it Bono, the Edge or someone else that wrote it? Edge gets credit for Maze of Words.
i wish they told us who wrote it....and now looking at it, there is a difference in the penmanship....I think EDGE wrote it....

For those who do not know to what we are talking about, the limited edition of HTDAAB has a book with it....That is where my quote came from....the ass that I am assumed it was Bono
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Old 11-27-2004, 08:08 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


the ass that I am assumed it was Bono
mistake anyone could make.

There are lots of FYM things to discuss in here from that book though. I absolutley LOVE it!
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Old 11-27-2004, 08:13 AM   #83
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There are no historical writings that mentioned Jesus
hogwash. There are.
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Old 11-27-2004, 08:45 AM   #84
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Originally posted by BostonAnne


mistake anyone could make.

There are lots of FYM things to discuss in here from that book though. I absolutley LOVE it!
yes, there would be quite a few threads that could be started.....
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Old 11-27-2004, 11:31 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am kind of surprised there is not a reaction to the Bono quote I put in at the beginning of the thread....
When I saw there was a Bono quote, I was hoping that it was going to explain the difference between God and religion. Instead, it really didn't interest me. Sorry, Bono.
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Old 11-27-2004, 01:11 PM   #86
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
When I saw there was a Bono quote, I was hoping that it was going to explain the difference between God and religion. Instead, it really didn't interest me. Sorry, Bono.

Have you read this Macfistowannabe?

from this interview with Larry King that aired December 1, 2002:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...1/lklw.00.html


Quote:
KING: You mentioned being Christian, and...

BONO: Trying to be.

KING: ... trying to be. Are you -- do you like organized religion? Are you a Catholic? Do you go to mass?

BONO: Who in Ireland could have too much respect for organized religion? We've seen it tear our country in two. My mother was a Protestant. My father was a Catholic. And I learned that religion is often the enemy of God, actually.

And religion is this sort of -- religion is the artifice, you know, the building, after God has left it sometimes, like Elvis has left the building. You hold onto religion, you know, rules, regulations, traditions. I think what God is interested in is people's hearts, and that's hard enough.

KING: So, especially in Ireland, you've seen it fail.

BONO: Yes, yes. And now, we're watching it around the world. We're watching what religion can do. And you know, I think it's anathema, and see -- religion takes ideas. Religion often reduces the size of God. God is so big. It's a gigantic concept in God. The idea that God might love us and be interested in us is kind of huge and gigantic, but we turn it, because we're small-minded, into this tiny, petty, often greedy version of God, that is religion.

KING: And so, we raise money in his name and go to war in his name.

BONO: Yes.

KING: If there is a God, he must be angry at a lot of this.

BONO: I think God is very angry at the moment, and I think there is -- I think it's shocking what is going on in the world. And I think it is an extraordinary moment.

Right now, I can tell you this. Our age will be remembered. This moment in time will be remembered for three things: the war against terror, sure; the Internet, probably; and how we let an entire continent, Africa, burst into flames and stood around with water in cans. This is not acceptable. It is not acceptable to let people die because they can't get the drugs that you and I take for granted. That means -- you have to ask very hard questions of ourselves if we're doing that.

KING: Why did we? For example, we would -- that wouldn't have happened in Europe. We wouldn't have let it happen in Europe.

BONO: Correct.

KING: OK. So, is it racial?

BONO: I think there's an element that people have written off in Africa.

KING: They're black.

BONO: And it's not even that they're black. I think deep down, if we really believe in equality, we would go to side of our brothers and sisters in Africa. What I would say is we don't really believe in equality. And -- I mean, equality is evolving, you know.

The idea that black people could vote here in the United States is relatively new, but women -- you know, it's like -- equality is like a pain in the ass if you think about it. It's like, you know, you think of these Jewish sheep herders walking in, in front of pharaohs, you know, with on their shoes, and the pharaoh is going, "You think you're equal to me?" And he looks in the book, and he goes, "Yes, that's what it says. All of us are created equal in God's image. That's what it says here." And it's like you're mad, you're out of your mind.

Well, it's true, and it's true, and we accept that now between our own borders. We accept that women and Jews and blacks and Irish are equal and have equal opportunities, but we don't really believe that for the rest of the world, because if we do, we would not be letting two-and-a-half million Africans die next year.

KING: There's no reason anyone in the world should be hungry, right?

BONO: Right.

KING: The means are there to...

BONO: That's right.

KING: ... produce it and deliver it.

BONO: That's right.
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Old 11-27-2004, 03:04 PM   #87
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If people believe that God created the world we live in, how come these people don't take the environmental cause under their wing? I hate insular living.

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Old 11-27-2004, 03:12 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by joerags
I used to believe in God,,,, until a few weeks ago.

There is no God. And Jesus never existed. The story of Jesus is a fictional story, told four different ways. Think about it. When Jesus was by himself or was with somebody and there was nobody around, how did anybody know what he said or did???

The early Christians were a cult, just like any other crazy cult nowadays. They propaganded this story about the Messiah coming down and doing all of these miracles. And the Romans thought these people were nuts, so they fed them to the lions in the Coloseum. Back then, people wanted to know if a Messiah will ever come down, and the early Christians fooled everybody and said that the Messiah did come down and did all these miracles. They were bullshitters..

If you ask any history professor, they will tell you that there is no proof that Jesus ever existed. There are no historical writings that mentioned Jesus.

There is no God. There is no heaven or hell. The Egyptions created this notion of a heaven and hell because they wanted to believe that there was an after-life.
There is no after-life. When you die, your existence is over. That's it. When you die, it's like when you were never born. Do you remember 100 years ago? No, because you didn't exist. Same thing happens when you die.

Adam and Eve never existed. We evolved from monkeys. Don't you guys remember the U2 Pop concert where they show the evolution of man from being a monkey to being a two-legged human?? Humans then furthered evolved based on climate and environement and other circumstances. That's why you have Asian people, black people, Spanish people, white people, ect...

There is no God. Wake up and smell the coffee..
Interesting. My roommate's copy of the Columbia History of the World asserts that Jesus existed, was crucified, and appeared to his disciples after his death. It describes these appearances as "visions", but it doesn't bother to try to discredit the resurrection.
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Old 11-27-2004, 03:18 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by joerags

I feel like I am beating a dead horse.
Attempting to address your opponents' arguments sometimes helps.
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Old 11-27-2004, 03:27 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


hogwash. There are.

Agreed. In Rome, in the year 93 AD, the secular Roman historian Flavius Josephus published his extensive history of the Jews. In discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, Josephus included an account of Jesus of Nazareth's life and crucifiction.

There's a least two other historical accounts....not might sound like a lot but historians have taken less accounts to be proof of life for other historical figures.
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