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Old 11-26-2004, 09:37 PM   #46
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Originally posted by DaveC
So today's Christianity is a completely bastardised version of its original intention.
I agree with this. We're not seen as people who love their neighbors as themselves. We're not seen as people who help the poor. What can we do to solve these problems?
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:38 PM   #47
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Another thing here, and I may just be a complete lunatic based on the fact that i have 5 hours of sleep in the last 36 hours, but...

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

A central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus did not sin during his lifetime, and therefore was perfect. This allowed him to take on the sins of the world, the perfect being made imperfect, to atone for every sin.

However, human nature is to sin. Case in point, you and me. We've all done it, lied, cheated, stolen, maybe in some cases killed or committed adultery, even much more minor things like making up an excuse to your parents or spouse about why you came in late. So every human sins, right?

But Jesus was human, so the Bible says, in his time on Earth until the time of his ascension into Heaven.

But Jesus never sinned.

Therefore, if every human sins, and Jesus did not sin, we can infer that Jesus Christ was not truly human. So therefore doesn't that sort of nullify the sacrifice made...?
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:40 PM   #48
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Re: I don't believe!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Lil'Bono

I asked this christian guy i know why,if there is a god,why does all the bad stuff happen in the world,apparently,he said god is punishing people for the wrong they've done!!

Also, i think it has something to do with the fact that I've seen the damage religion can do to people to countries!!

That guy is a serious far cry from a Christian. He isn't into God...he's into religion. There's a HUGE difference there. Religion is what happens when people try to create God in THIER image, which is always tiny, pathetic and suited for their own purposes.

I believe in God. Not religion.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:41 PM   #49
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I agree with this. We're not seen as people who love their neighbors as themselves. We're not seen as people who help the poor. What can we do to solve these problems?
Ahh, you didn't read my post at all. That wasn't what I meant when I said modern Christianity is bastardized. I meant that the New Testament is completely modified, aspects of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, ascension, etc...they were all changed in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea.

The entire Bible was revised, basically, akin to taking a textbook you wrote on Biology and adding new information, subtracting old ideas based on new research, or even just continuity of information.

The idea of Jesus as we know Him today was actually formed almost 300 years after his death and resurrection.

[/history major]
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:42 PM   #50
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Fully God and Fully man. His emotions on the cross must have been more painful because his entire creation turned against him in the name of religion. His willingness to save mankind when he could've chosen not to - now that's love. Love without limits.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:43 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC

Therefore, if every human sins, and Jesus did not sin, we can infer that Jesus Christ was not truly human. So therefore doesn't that sort of nullify the sacrifice made...?

No. Not if you examine the meaning behind OT sacrifical atonements, understanding of Hebrew vocabulary and whatnot.......
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC


Ahh, you didn't read my post at all. That wasn't what I meant when I said modern Christianity is bastardized. I meant that the New Testament is completely modified, aspects of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, ascension, etc...they were all changed in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea.

The entire Bible was revised, basically, akin to taking a textbook you wrote on Biology and adding new information, subtracting old ideas based on new research, or even just continuity of information.

The idea of Jesus as we know Him today was actually formed almost 300 years after his death and resurrection.

[/history major]


That's actually not entirely truthful and accurate....
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:45 PM   #53
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Re: Re: I don't believe!!

Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue



That guy is a serious far cry from a Christian. He isn't into God...he's into religion. There's a HUGE difference there. Religion is what happens when people try to create God in THIER image, which is always tiny, pathetic and suited for their own purposes.

I believe in God. Not religion.
I nod in agreement.

Recreating God is probably just as bad as doubting God.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:45 PM   #54
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I just want to make clear though that I'm not trying to tear apart or discredit Christianity in any way. You can certainly believe whatever you want it to be, be it Christianity, Islam, Atheism, or that there's a little green man in your colon who's going to eat you from the inside out, or whatever.

I consider myself an Agnostic (although leaning atheistically), so I really have no need to try to discredit Christianity, or God. I'm totally aware of the possibility that there may be something supernatural outside. However, to my eyes, with the evidence I've seen to both sides of the argument, I just don't have enough faith in either side to commit.

Just thought I'd make that clear that I'm not out to bash Christians or anything of the like. I'm just putting my arguments out there.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:47 PM   #55
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That's cool, Dave. I'm not trying to do the same to you either. I used to be likeminded before as well...I understand...
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
Just thought I'd make that clear that I'm not out to bash Christians or anything of the like. I'm just putting my arguments out there.
It's all good. I just don't really know where your coming from when you're sighting faults in scripture though.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:52 PM   #57
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Originally posted by starsgoblue



No. Not if you examine the meaning behind OT sacrifical atonements, understanding of Hebrew vocabulary and whatnot.......
Please explain.

Quote:
That's actually not entirely truthful and accurate....
Well no, I may have exaggerated a bit on the "rewrote the Bible" part. But they did rewrite a lot of key parts in it to make it a lot more palatable to the pagan citizenry, who were reluctant to let go of the beliefs they'd had for almost 1000 years.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:53 PM   #58
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DaveC

Your arguments are cogent. For me, I don't believe there is a God or that Jesus ever existed. I am not here to bash or belittle Christians. I just feel sorry for them for believing in something that doesn't exist. But if it makes them a better human being, that's great.... I am all for people who do good and do charity and help others.. It's not going to get them any closer to a so-called heaven...
If I am wrong and that Jesus did exist, he was not the Messiah. He was just another philospher, just like Aristotle or Socrates, who pretty much preached the same things that Jesus preached, like help others and do good for others...
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:54 PM   #59
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There was a Council of Nicea....what you are saying was accomplished is not accurate.


I would be happy to explain the OT in relation to the NT as far as sacraficial atonement and all of that if you are genuinely interested....I'm going to bed right now (it's 1 am here) but if you'd like to email me or have me post here I will.
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Old 11-26-2004, 09:56 PM   #60
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I can believe that Martin Luther never existed if I wanted to, but that would be stupid for many reasons. How could such a spiritual revolution happen if these people never existed?
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