I don't believe!!

[DaveC]

what always astounds me is how a minor israelite tribal god managed to become the world's #1 religion.

yahweh hadn't even been heard of outside of the immediate area of canaan until roman times.

and the israelites didn't even have a monotheistic religion. it was complete henotheism.

 

[Evalicious]

Love.. i never had love ..how would i know

AcrobatMan

Come here, im gonna give you a hug!

 

[MadelynIris]

what always astounds me is how a minor israelite tribal god managed to become the world's #1 religion.

yahweh hadn't even been heard of outside of the immediate area of canaan until roman times.

and the israelites didn't even have a monotheistic religion. it was complete henotheism

This fact, combined with the history of the Jews, and how much of their history is documented in the books of the prophets, and how much of it all lines up JUST BLOWS ME AWAY!

Really.

 

[U2Kitten]

what always astounds me is how a minor israelite tribal god managed to become the world's #1 religion.

yahweh hadn't even been heard of outside of the immediate area of canaan until roman times.

Well, as Pharoah said, 'His God, is God.'

 

[indra]

Well, as Pharoah said, 'His God, is God.'

And this kind of arrogant attitude is part of what make many people despise Christians.

"My God's bigger, so he's The One True God." What BS.

 

[U2Kitten]

And this kind of arrogant attitude is part of what make many people despise Christians.

"My God's bigger, so he's The One True God." What BS.

Actually, that was not "Christian" but Jewish.

I think I know what you're getting at, like some Southern Baptists act like their church is the only church that's right and everyone else is going to Hell. I know some like that. This is not what I mean. I mean that is is possible the God of Abraham is the supreme being of the universe and it's wrong to hate people for believing that. I'm not calling anyone else 'wrong.' It's also possible he has taken on other forms or meanings to other people, but is still the same now and forever.

 

[Evalicious]

I dont know how i feel about God

I hope she exists

 

[Saracene]

My feeling is that while I can't be sure whether any sort of higher being or power exists, I can't be sure that it doesn't exist either. But even if it does exist, its nature, intentions and relevance (if any) to my life is something else entirely. I've no idea what they might be and I can't say I believe in any interpretation or image of it offered by any of the world's religions.

 

[DaveC]

Well, as Pharoah said, 'His God, is God.'

is that quote from the Bible? from Exodus?

cause you do realize that there is absolutely ZERO archaeological evidence anywhere in Egypt of Israelites existing there as a cohesive unit of any numbers at all at any time right?

the only place that even suggests that the Israelites were even IN Egypt at any point in time is the Bible, and guess what...you can't use the Bible as a reliable primary source.

Besides, even if the pharaoh (which one are you referring to?) said something like that, it'd be in a sense of henotheism, and probably in reference to the belief that Yahweh and some major Egyptian god like Horus or Amun were one and the same, much like many think that Yahweh and Allah are one and the same.

oh, and henotheism is the belief system in which you worship only one god, but acknowledge that there are other gods out there too.

notice that Yahweh did not say "I am the Lord your God. I shall be your only God.", but he did say "I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me." seems to me this implies Yahweh him/her/itself suggesting there are other gods out there of which he is the chief.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I believe those in Northern Ireland who take God's name in vain for killing others will receive God's judgement. Bono himself has said that doubting religion doesn't mean doubting God at all. Religion is hardcore traditionalism, many times forced routine, and we should be very careful that we use religion in the right way. Religion is man-made, and God is not.

God's love has no limits, and I don't think God takes people away from him. I think a loss of faith is caused by people themselves, and God will take those back with open arms when they turn to HIM.

God is LOVE.
Religion is EXCUSES.
Two very different things.

 

[joerags]

I used to believe in God,,,, until a few weeks ago.

There is no God. And Jesus never existed. The story of Jesus is a fictional story, told four different ways. Think about it. When Jesus was by himself or was with somebody and there was nobody around, how did anybody know what he said or did???

The early Christians were a cult, just like any other crazy cult nowadays. They propaganded this story about the Messiah coming down and doing all of these miracles. And the Romans thought these people were nuts, so they fed them to the lions in the Coloseum. Back then, people wanted to know if a Messiah will ever come down, and the early Christians fooled everybody and said that the Messiah did come down and did all these miracles. They were bullshitters..

If you ask any history professor, they will tell you that there is no proof that Jesus ever existed. There are no historical writings that mentioned Jesus.

There is no God. There is no heaven or hell. The Egyptions created this notion of a heaven and hell because they wanted to believe that there was an after-life.
There is no after-life. When you die, your existence is over. That's it. When you die, it's like when you were never born. Do you remember 100 years ago? No, because you didn't exist. Same thing happens when you die.

Adam and Eve never existed. We evolved from monkeys. Don't you guys remember the U2 Pop concert where they show the evolution of man from being a monkey to being a two-legged human?? Humans then furthered evolved based on climate and environement and other circumstances. That's why you have Asian people, black people, Spanish people, white people, ect...

There is no God. Wake up and smell the coffee..

 

[joerags]

And how come the Bible never mentions dinosaurs. There were dinosaurs on this earth, but the Bible says the world was created in seven days and then you had Adam and Eve.

Give me a break..

The Bible is a total joke. It makes me laugh. That's why I love The Simpsons. They make fun of "God" and "Jesus"...

 

[DaveC]

Some muddiness but some otherwise good points in there...

Christianity was a cult for the first 313 years of its existence, much like we would view something like Scientology today. Completely wacko (EDIT: in the eyes of Roman popular cuture) and only a very small minority (my apologies if there are any Scientologists here, I'm only making a point).

The only reason it caught on as big as it did was the Roman Empire. More specifically, Constantine. He got caught in a freak circumstance, became a believer in Christianity and so by default the Roman Empire was from then on Christian. Much like Henry VIII converting to Protestantism made England Protestant by default, even Akhenaten converting to believe in a henotheism based on Aten.

So then they held the Council of Nicaea to "Romanise" Christianity. They completely made it something different than it originally was. Hell, they rewrote the Bible from Genesis to Revelation to fit their needs and to make the transition from complete polytheistic paganism to complete monitheistic Christianity that much easier on themselves.

Did you know that Jesus wasn't even considered to be literally part of God until the Council of Nicaea deemed it so by a vote, and then rewrote the New Testament to fit?

So today's Christianity is a completely bastardised version of its original intention.

 

[DaveC]

And how come the Bible never mentions dinosaurs. There were dinosaurs on this earth, but the Bible says the world was created in seven days and then you had Adam and Eve.

Give me a break..

The Bible is a total joke. It makes me laugh. That's why I love The Simpsons. They make fun of "God" and "Jesus"...

OK, now you're just ranting. Offer some decent, thought out arguments before ripping something to shreds. This is an extremely personal topic for many people and I'm sure they don't appreciate you saying their faith is a "total joke" based on something like the Genesis creation story.

Besides, the vast majority of thinking Christians know that about 98% of everything before the book(s) of Kings is all metaphor anyways.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

We evolved from monkeys. Don't you guys remember the U2 Pop concert where they show the evolution of man from being a monkey to being a two-legged human?? Humans then furthered evolved based on climate and environement and other circumstances. That's why you have Asian people, black people, Spanish people, white people, ect...

How come white people don't have green tongues? How come my ancestors don't look any more like an ape than I do? I find the "big bang" theory and the chance that we can survive on reasonable temperatures very tiny, as well as our existence, if something supernatural never occured.

The Bible is a total joke. It makes me laugh. That's why I love The Simpsons. They make fun of "God" and "Jesus"...

Actually, The Simpsons has a lot of Christianity involved if you think about it. I've heard they were created by Christian fundamentalists to show the corruption of society. I've also heard that every Simpsons episode has a scriptural reference in it. Also, why would people DIE and be BEHEADED for what they believe in if it's A JOKE?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

So today's Christianity is a completely bastardised version of its original intention.

I agree with this. We're not seen as people who love their neighbors as themselves. We're not seen as people who help the poor. What can we do to solve these problems?

 

[DaveC]

Another thing here, and I may just be a complete lunatic based on the fact that i have 5 hours of sleep in the last 36 hours, but...

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

A central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus did not sin during his lifetime, and therefore was perfect. This allowed him to take on the sins of the world, the perfect being made imperfect, to atone for every sin.

However, human nature is to sin. Case in point, you and me. We've all done it, lied, cheated, stolen, maybe in some cases killed or committed adultery, even much more minor things like making up an excuse to your parents or spouse about why you came in late. So every human sins, right?

But Jesus was human, so the Bible says, in his time on Earth until the time of his ascension into Heaven.

But Jesus never sinned.

Therefore, if every human sins, and Jesus did not sin, we can infer that Jesus Christ was not truly human. So therefore doesn't that sort of nullify the sacrifice made...?

 

[starsgoblue]

I asked this christian guy i know why,if there is a god,why does all the bad stuff happen in the world,apparently,he said god is punishing people for the wrong they've done!!

Also, i think it has something to do with the fact that I've seen the damage religion can do to people to countries!!

That guy is a serious far cry from a Christian. He isn't into God...he's into religion. There's a HUGE difference there. Religion is what happens when people try to create God in THIER image, which is always tiny, pathetic and suited for their own purposes.

I believe in God. Not religion.

 

[DaveC]

I agree with this. We're not seen as people who love their neighbors as themselves. We're not seen as people who help the poor. What can we do to solve these problems?

Ahh, you didn't read my post at all. That wasn't what I meant when I said modern Christianity is bastardized. I meant that the New Testament is completely modified, aspects of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, ascension, etc...they were all changed in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea.

The entire Bible was revised, basically, akin to taking a textbook you wrote on Biology and adding new information, subtracting old ideas based on new research, or even just continuity of information.

The idea of Jesus as we know Him today was actually formed almost 300 years after his death and resurrection.

[/history major]

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Fully God and Fully man. His emotions on the cross must have been more painful because his entire creation turned against him in the name of religion. His willingness to save mankind when he could've chosen not to - now that's love. Love without limits.

 

[starsgoblue]

Therefore, if every human sins, and Jesus did not sin, we can infer that Jesus Christ was not truly human. So therefore doesn't that sort of nullify the sacrifice made...?

No. Not if you examine the meaning behind OT sacrifical atonements, understanding of Hebrew vocabulary and whatnot.......

 

[starsgoblue]

Ahh, you didn't read my post at all. That wasn't what I meant when I said modern Christianity is bastardized. I meant that the New Testament is completely modified, aspects of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, ascension, etc...they were all changed in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea.

The entire Bible was revised, basically, akin to taking a textbook you wrote on Biology and adding new information, subtracting old ideas based on new research, or even just continuity of information.

The idea of Jesus as we know Him today was actually formed almost 300 years after his death and resurrection.

[/history major]

That's actually not entirely truthful and accurate....

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Re: Re: I don't believe!!

That guy is a serious far cry from a Christian. He isn't into God...he's into religion. There's a HUGE difference there. Religion is what happens when people try to create God in THIER image, which is always tiny, pathetic and suited for their own purposes.

I believe in God. Not religion.

I nod in agreement.

Recreating God is probably just as bad as doubting God.

 

[DaveC]

I just want to make clear though that I'm not trying to tear apart or discredit Christianity in any way. You can certainly believe whatever you want it to be, be it Christianity, Islam, Atheism, or that there's a little green man in your colon who's going to eat you from the inside out, or whatever.

I consider myself an Agnostic (although leaning atheistically), so I really have no need to try to discredit Christianity, or God. I'm totally aware of the possibility that there may be something supernatural outside. However, to my eyes, with the evidence I've seen to both sides of the argument, I just don't have enough faith in either side to commit.

Just thought I'd make that clear that I'm not out to bash Christians or anything of the like. I'm just putting my arguments out there.

 

[starsgoblue]

That's cool, Dave. I'm not trying to do the same to you either. I used to be likeminded before as well...I understand...

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Just thought I'd make that clear that I'm not out to bash Christians or anything of the like. I'm just putting my arguments out there.

It's all good. I just don't really know where your coming from when you're sighting faults in scripture though.

 

[DaveC]

No. Not if you examine the meaning behind OT sacrifical atonements, understanding of Hebrew vocabulary and whatnot.......

Please explain.

That's actually not entirely truthful and accurate....

Well no, I may have exaggerated a bit on the "rewrote the Bible" part. But they did rewrite a lot of key parts in it to make it a lot more palatable to the pagan citizenry, who were reluctant to let go of the beliefs they'd had for almost 1000 years.

 

[joerags]

DaveC

Your arguments are cogent. For me, I don't believe there is a God or that Jesus ever existed. I am not here to bash or belittle Christians. I just feel sorry for them for believing in something that doesn't exist. But if it makes them a better human being, that's great.... I am all for people who do good and do charity and help others.. It's not going to get them any closer to a so-called heaven...
If I am wrong and that Jesus did exist, he was not the Messiah. He was just another philospher, just like Aristotle or Socrates, who pretty much preached the same things that Jesus preached, like help others and do good for others...

 

[starsgoblue]

There was a Council of Nicea....what you are saying was accomplished is not accurate.


I would be happy to explain the OT in relation to the NT as far as sacraficial atonement and all of that if you are genuinely interested....I'm going to bed right now (it's 1 am here) but if you'd like to email me or have me post here I will.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I can believe that Martin Luther never existed if I wanted to, but that would be stupid for many reasons. How could such a spiritual revolution happen if these people never existed?