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Old 11-01-2005, 07:55 PM   #31
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Originally posted by anitram


I've yet to meet a Canadian who wants to become more like the US. The closest I've come to are those who want less taxes, but even in those circles, they wouldn't take lower taxes if they have to take all the other crap that comes along with it.
I guess I should have clarified and said 'some Australian and Canadian politicians' want to become more like the US. I'm sure the average person doesn't want these things anymore than most US citizens do.
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:36 PM   #32
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Hi all! I am a good ten years about older than the U2 Cacusus's candidate for president, U2Dem. But I share her view that giving up is not an option. For those who have the energy and stomach (and if you don't, really, can't you whine? ), there are plenty of options.

Never forget the examples of Thoreau, MLK, Malcom X, Gandhi, Rosa Parks (RIP), Dorothy Day. Not to mention this one Irish singer.

Never forget the three most important words in politics: organize, organize, organize!

Never forget that all politics is local.

Paul Wellstone's The Conscience of a Liberal and his staffer's (I forget the name, but Amazon.com will have it) book Winning the Wellstone Way give what I found to be really helpful details and stories of successful progressive organizing.

Seriously, guys, let's erase "I can't" from our vocabulary. Remind yerself it's what they want you think.
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:41 PM   #33
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It's what keeps me going and not curling up in a little ball.

That and the need to try to keep hard won freedoms and a liveable world for my son.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:06 PM   #34
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Melon, get involved on a local level...city council, school board, something of that nature. Personally, I know I do not agree with you on a lot of things, but there is one thing I could trust you to do and that is to up the mainstream...something any democracy needs. You force people to think and you hold a lot of ideas that GOPers and Dems would not like.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Hi all! I am a good ten years about older than the U2 Cacusus's candidate for president, U2Dem. But I share her view that giving up is not an option. For those who have the energy and stomach (and if you don't, really, can't you whine? ), there are plenty of options.

Never forget the examples of Thoreau, MLK, Malcom X, Gandhi, Rosa Parks (RIP), Dorothy Day. Not to mention this one Irish singer.

Never forget the three most important words in politics: organize, organize, organize!

Never forget that all politics is local.

Paul Wellstone's The Conscience of a Liberal and his staffer's (I forget the name, but Amazon.com will have it) book Winning the Wellstone Way give what I found to be really helpful details and stories of successful progressive organizing.

Seriously, guys, let's erase "I can't" from our vocabulary. Remind yerself it's what they want you think.


Definitely don't give up. If you do, well then the other side has won...and I dare not give them that satisfaction of having this Democrat down for the count. Get on the inside and bring 'em down from there if you have to. Maybe because y'all don't have major elections going on right now you're not as fired up as I am, but just wait 'till next year with the midterms. Bring it on!
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Calluna

I guess I should have clarified and said 'some Australian and Canadian politicians' want to become more like the US. I'm sure the average person doesn't want these things anymore than most US citizens do.
Power.

Our last election was a month before the last US election. I had no idea where to vote. On the one side is a man who I absolutely hate, who is bent on tearing this country up in his own ridiculously conservative image. On the other was a completely inept party who couldn't arrange the pillows in their own bed, let alone policies and an effective leadership. If you were to visit Sydney, you will flat out struggle to find anyone who doesn't wish Howard would crawl away and die, yet are all fearful of the apparent complete stupidity of the alternative. Other areas are similar to the US, eg how the media deals with all of this (right down to Murdochs hand). Honestly, if the opposition had even an average leader and ideas going into the last election, they would have won (and I get the same feeling from the US) and probably quite easily.

With Howard, what could you expect? I'm ashamed that he is the leader here. Very much so. It's sad that I think for myself and so many others, even not in areas of policy or whatever, you are listening to your prime minister or presidents beliefs and ideals and thinking "he's not even talking about my country?". In addition to that I'm flat out fucking angry at the opposition for being so incredibly outright moronic in the face of that.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:46 PM   #37
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I think that Fairfax, SBS and ABC would more than make up for bias on other outlets.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:04 PM   #38
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I think that Fairfax, SBS and ABC would more than make up for bias on other outlets.
I don't think that's the case at all. They may weight up in the sense that it's, maybe, 3 media outlets on one side and 3 on the other. However, when you talk reach and demographics....

Answer this. The average Australian Jane/Joe (in Sydney) is;

(A)

"I watch World News and documentaries on SBS, love Lateline on the ABC. I read the Sydney Morning Herald cover to cover every day - particularly the World News section and the editorial pages. I listen to ABC radio while at work."

(B)

"I catch a few headlines on Sunrise/Today in the morning sometimes. I flick through the Daily Telegraph on a break at work, usualy just the front couple of pages and the celebrity news (female)/football news (male). I listen to FM radio. I catch the news occasionaly at night, sometimes ACA/Today Tonight."
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:09 PM   #39
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I think B, but the flipside is that I am A (although finally getting rid of The Age next week and getting the Australian) and there are at time instances of severe bias. There are very few news outlets that give any in depth coverage and of those they do tend to have some bias especially SBS, ABC is the most balanced and gives good coverage.

All I can say is thank the USA for the Internet.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:22 PM   #40
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I agree totally with what Angela, Earnie & Wanderer are saying here. The Australian government is moving the currently more and more towards America and I think it is a major affailing of both the opposition and the general public that they aren't making this more of an issue.

As Earnie said, most people if you asked them would air some discontent for ol' Johnny, but that is only when asked. At the last election I believe most people voted out of their own self interest ($$$$) instead of the greater good of the country. While Labor is a clusterfuck, on key issues I do think they are on the right side of things - they just aren't fit for government yet, but the Libs weren't exactly fit in 1996, so these things can surprise some people.

Johnny will continue to drive Australia down a path that on balance I don't think the people want to go down until either, Costello takes the reigns and/or Labor find the man (and I think I know the one) who could quite possibly lead them into government next term...
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Old 11-02-2005, 04:20 AM   #41
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Originally posted by timothius

Johnny will continue to drive Australia down a path that on balance I don't think the people want to go down until either, Costello takes the reigns and/or Labor find the man (and I think I know the one) who could quite possibly lead them into government next term...
And who is this next Labor man you are thinking of?
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Old 11-02-2005, 04:54 AM   #42
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Well I think that voting in my self interest for VSU is perfectly fine, I have no faith in collectivism for the "greater good".
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:49 PM   #43
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I would vote for Melon and U2Democrat tomorrow.

No campaigning necessary, no waste of money.
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:56 PM   #44
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Originally posted by ouizy
I would vote for Melon and U2Democrat tomorrow.

No campaigning necessary, no waste of money.


Thanks
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Old 11-02-2005, 04:05 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
I would vote for Melon and U2Democrat tomorrow.

No campaigning necessary, no waste of money.


Hurry up and get older, U2democrat.
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