I am ashamed of my country

[Klodomir]

I have never before had a reason to be truly ashamed of my country and my people, but I am today.

Not only does it look like an openly racist party will win more than 10% of the seats in the Danish parliament after tonight's general election, but a poll now shows that 40 percent of the Danish population believes that torture is acceptable when interrogating terrorism suspects.

Why do I bring this statistic up when this topic has recently been discussed here (yes, I've been lurking, just not posting)? Well, because only 3 short months ago "only" 14% agreed with this statement. The discussion was brought up when Israel's new ambassador, Carmi Gillon, arrived in Copenhagen. Gillon served as head of Israel's Shin Bet domestic intelligence service from 1994-96, during which time, by his own admission, he approved the use of torture against Palestinian suspects.

Looks like the Danes think that the problems of their country and the world in general can be solved by extremism.

I guess that's what happens when people have it so good that they no longer need to think for themselves. May Denmark get the government it deserves! I'm not going back anytime soon.

God bless the world!

[This message has been edited by Klodomir (edited 11-20-2001).]

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Not only does it look like an openly racist party will win more than 10% of the seats in the Danish parliament after tonight's general election, but a poll now shows that 40 percent of the Danish population believes that torture is acceptable when interrogating terrorism suspects.

It's a lot like that here in the U.S. Morality and all the ideals we are supposed to be defending are being thrown out as fast as people can dispose of them.

 

[speedracer]

Please elaborate. (You too, DoctorGonzo.)

 

[Klodomir]

What's missing, Speedracer? Support for racism and human rights violations are on the rise in Denmark - I have backed this up with figures - and I'm ashamed of what my country is turning into. That's basically what I wanted to say.

 

[DrTeeth]

I too am disgusted. Yesterday I read that the FP? (sorry, can't find the big ?) might team up with the extremist Vlaams Blok in the future.

 

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by Klodomir:

...but a poll now shows that 40 percent of the Danish population believes that torture is acceptable when interrogating terrorism suspects.

Holy shit, that's really sad and disturbing.

 

[speedracer]

Originally posted by Klodomir:
What's missing, Speedracer? Support for racism and human rights violations are on the rise in Denmark - I have backed this up with figures - and I'm ashamed of what my country is turning into. That's basically what I wanted to say.

I was wondering about the racist 10% in the parliament. Are they Nazis? White trash supremacists? Black Panthers?

 

[Klodomir]

Oh no, nothing like that. They're not Nazis (although Denmark harbours a lot of those too, since they are not allowed to meet in Germany), and there is no real white trash or black people there either. No, they look inconspicuous enough, they just happen to believe that most Muslims are bad, that Denmark shouldn't be taking in any immigrants or refugees since they already have so many (which they don't, not compared to other European countries) and since they are not compatible with Danish ethics and values because they have brought up in old-fashioned societies and are illiterate and lazy. Except for the very few who have managed to adapt, but that's not very many, according to them.

I took these opinions from the manifesto on their web site, and I hate to ask you to take my word for it, but I can't translate the whole damn thing. With a bit of luck, some international newspapers may report a bit on them if they make it into the the government, but then again maybe not, considering the current state of the world. Especially now that Denmark has really proved itself to be an insignificant little country full of spoiled over-privileged people that nobody should listen to. What a shame! We used to have something to contribute.

 

[Klodomir]

In case someone can and wants to read it, here's the URL: http://www.danskfolkeparti.dk

 

[zoomerang II]

Thats interesting klodomir, however i don't hink you should feel ashamed of your country, just the minority of people who feel that way.

I was in Odense a while ago and remember all the german neonazis going to denmark to march because they weren't allowed to do it in Germany... the police were there to protect them but I thought well they kind of deserve what they get...

Do you think these attitudes have come out of campaigning to stay out of the euro resulting in an isolationist attitude or manifesto prevailing within denmark?

Also what was the nature of the poll on terrorist suspects? Was it a fair reflection and how was it worded?

I always thought that Danes were about the most liberal and welcoming country on the planet. And I am sure that although a lot of people may feel that way, do people think the same if you ask them about the princess (wasn't she from Hong Kong?) or that long distance runner who came from africa? Just a thought i guess.


[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 11-21-2001).]

 

[Klodomir]

Thanks for offering such an informed opinion, Zoomerang II. Your knowledge of Denmark impresses me.

To answer your questions, first of all, a link to an article by the Guardian. There were many to choose from, but I wanted to make sure it came from a reputable source:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,602747,00.html

I realize that many, many Danes are just as shocked and disgusted with the election result as I am, and that many of them have not forgotten what we until recently knew to be basic human rights. But the extremist minority is growing fast, and now the party I wrote about has become the third largest in the country, controlling 12% of Parliament.

And just so you we all know what we're talking about here. Party leader Pia Kj?rsgaard is such a radical nationalist that even J?rg Haider refused to meet with her, for fear that it might tarnish his image! Unfortunately, she is also very intelligent and a true... well, I know that the word has almost been banned on this forum, but I have to use it - demagogue!

In spite of its small size, Denmark used to be a country of quite some significance internationally. It was known for its high social and environmental standards, for instance. There is hardly any homelessness in Denmark - people won't be freezing to death in the streets of Copenhagen this winter. Or just think of the enormous amounts of money - relative to the country's size - that Denmark has always been giving to third world countries, and then even taking the time and effort to make sure the money didn't fall into the wrong hands. I could go on... but now the Danish people can no longer be taken seriously. Instead of sharing their wealth and continuing to fight against the pandering to the lowest common denominator in the EU, Danes now have a much more pressing issue to take care of, namely getting rid of everyone who looks and thinks differently. Well, SHAME ON ALL OF US for letting this happen, even those of us who don't believe the hype. We have obviously not done our work well.

Back to your questions...

I do not believe that this has anything to do with voting against the euro, even though
the Danish People's Party campaigned against this too. When it comes to Europe, Danes know their stuff, and the majority of people who have voted either yes or no in the three big referendums have done so based on a very informed opinion. The Danish constitution was one of the few that would not allow a government to give up sovereignty without first consulting the people, and we were got a lot more information than other countries - from both sides. I could say a lot more on this, but it's a different discussion.

As for the very popular Princess Alexandra... well, there are various things at play here. First of all, she's of Asian descent, and Danes generally speaking have no beef with them. Secondly, she is considered a "perfect immigrant" because she speaks the language extremely well and generally acts like a Dane. Very much like Princess-to-be Maxima of the Netherlands. But of course, these two remarkable and intelligent - but also privileged - women have been given a lot of help that your average refugee doesn't have access to. So even though on the surface it would look as if Danes would welcome foreigners with open arms, it very much depends on what kind of foreigner. If they would all immediately upon arrival convert to Christianity or atheism (okay, so you can't really convert to that, but you know what I mean), dress in jeans and loafers, eat sausages and speak accent-free Danish, it would all be a lot easier. Or they could just stay away since it's their own stupid fault that their country of origin is at war and behind the times. They could just stand up for themselves as we mighty vikings do! Well, that seems to be the general opinion at the moment.

As for the poll, I'm afraid that the details have drowned in the election news, but I'm hoping http://www.amnesty.dk will follow up on it. I have no more details.

Sorry people, this got a lot longer than I wanted it to be, but it's hard to keep a discussion like this brief when most people don't know very much about the country in question. It's easier to talk about the USA.

Thanks for your interest, though.

~Klodomir of the Klodomirian Empire, Europe

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by Klodomir:
Party leader Pia Kj?rsgaard is such a radical nationalist that even J?rg Haider refused to meet with her, for fear that it might tarnish his image!

wow, I didn't know that
that is bad

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[Lilly]

Wow, i had no idea that the danes were like this. probably because i don't really know a lot about the danes. but let's face it, the u.s is trying to figure out any way possible to kill osama. we can't try and kill him in federal court cases (which is what this would be being that it happened in 2 states and washington d.c). so we're going to hold osama and other terrorists who masterminded this at court in military court. it's just a cheap and more legal way of killing the terrorists so we feel some redemption. i'm sure we would have the same torture policies surfacing here now if it wasn't in the constitution that we can't torture.

------------------
Go lightly down your darkened way.

 

[U2Bama]

I thought racists only existed in the U.S.?

 

[Klodomir]

Well, I'm sure it sometimes looks like that when you're sitting in Alabama, but I'm afraid you didn't patent idiocy.

 

[pub crawler]

Ooooooh, touch?! LOL!

 

[U2Bama]

No, it has nothing to do with Alabama or the South in general. In fact, we tend to be moving away from racism where I live. I can't say that as much about other parts of the U.S. But if the documentaries and text books TELL you that we are all racist KKK members down here, then, by God, I guess we are.

~U2Alabama

 

[Klodomir]

If I didn't know you any better, I'd say you had lost your sense of humour, Bama. But it's okay - I can see how it can be annoying when others always see your people in a certain light. But there was a smiley there, honestly. I'm not as uninformed as you maybe think.

 

[U2Bama]

I knew you were merely picking on my Southerness, klodomir, as was evidenced by the smiley-wink thing. However, I never use smilies, and therefore it is impossible for people to tell whether I take humor for what it is. That is intentional, and it is part of my greater diabolical plan.

The common lay reader of my posts may interpret me as some grumpy, stone-faced goon. That may, or may NOT, be true. But those of you who know my posts the best know how to read them.

I wish I could end this post with a cute smiley, but my ethics tell me to refuse to do so.

~U2Alabama

 

[Klodomir]

See, I knew you hadn't lost it.

Sicy, give Bama a bag of smilies, willya?

So what gives, Bama? You and Salome, I mean?