I am a terrorist.

[martha]

http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/02242004/nation_w/141927.asp



Education chief in 'NEA culpa'


By Robert Tanner
The Associated Press

??? WASHINGTON -- Education Secretary Rod Paige called the nation's largest teachers union a "terrorist organization" Monday, taking on the 2.7 million-member National Education Association early in the presidential election year.
??? Paige's comments, made to the nation's governors at a private White House meeting, were denounced by union President Reg Weaver. Paige said he was sorry, and the White House said he was right to apologize.
??? The education secretary's words were "pathetic and they are not a laughing matter," said Weaver, whose union has said it plans to sue the Bush administration over lack of funding for demands included in the "No Child Left Behind" law.
??? Paige said later that his comment was "a bad joke; it was an inappropriate choice of words."
??? "As one who grew up on the receiving end of insensitive remarks, I should have chosen my words better," said Paige, the first black education secretary.
??? Pat Rusk, president of the Utah Education Association, reacted to Paige's comment while attending a hearing on Utah's Capitol Hill.
??? "Last week we were told that we weren't welcome in the Republican Party of Utah. And this week we're told we're terrorists. Seems like someone's really upset about No Child Left Behind. It seems to me that when you're running scared, you just start throwing stones.
??? "More and more people coming out criticizing this law, and they are refusing to back away from the legislation and say we made a mistake. "
??? The Utah House has voted to stick with No Child Left Behind, but has barred districts from siphoning state and local money to carry out the act's mandates.
??? Meanwhile, Paige said he had made it clear to the governors that he was referring to the Washington-based union organization, not the teachers it represents.
???-----
??? Tribune reporter Mike
???Cronin contributed.
??? Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, put it in stronger terms, accusing Paige of resorting "to the most vile and disgusting form of hate speech, comparing those who teach America's children to terrorists."
??? Education has been a top issue for the governors, who have sought more flexibility from the administration on Bush's "No Child Left Behind" law, which seeks to improve school performance in part by allowing parents to move their children from poorly performing schools.
??? Democrats have said Bush has failed to fully fund the law, giving the states greater burdens but not the resources to handle them. The union backs the intent of the law but says many of its provisions must be changed.
??? The NEA spends roughly $1 million a year lobbying in Washington. It is also a big political donor, mostly to Democrats.
??? In the last presidential election cycle, 1999-2000, NEA and its political action committee donated $3.1 million to federal candidates and national party committees, with about $9 of every $10 going to Democrats. At that time, national party committees were allowed to raise union donations, part of the so-called soft money that they are now barred from accepting.
??? Missouri Gov. Bob Holden, a Democrat, said Paige's remarks startled the governors, who met for nearly two hours with Bush and several Cabinet officials.
??? "He is, I guess, very concerned about anybody that questions what the president is doing," Holden said.
??? Vermont Gov. Jim Douglas, a Republican, said, "Somebody asked him about the NEA's role and he offered his perspective on it."
??? Gov. Jennifer Granholm of Michigan, a Democrat, said the comments were made in the context of "we can't be supportive of the status quo and they're the status quo. But whatever the context, it is inappropriate -- I know he wasn't calling teachers terrorists -- but to even suggest that the organization they belong to was a terrorist organization is uncalled for."
??? Paige, in an interview, talked at length about his agency's efforts to work with states over their concerns with the law. He said meetings with state leaders have erased misunderstandings and a tone of confrontation.
??? But he said some opposition to the law has been stirred by at least three groups that are "hard nosed, highly financed and well organized." Asked to name the groups other than the NEA, Paige declined, saying: "I've already got into deep water with that one, haven't I?"
??? The governors were in Washington for four days of discussions at the annual meeting of the National Governors Association, though the usual effort to build consensus was marked by partisan politics that Democrats said couldn't be avoided.
??? In brief public comments, Bush told the governors that rising political tensions of an election year won't stop him from working closely with them.
??? "I fully understand it's going to be the year of the sharp elbow and the quick tongue," Bush said. "But surely we can shuffle that aside sometimes and focus on our people."
???
???
???
???
?
? Copyright 2004, The Salt Lake Tribune.
All material found on Utah Online is copyrighted The Salt Lake Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune.
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[nbcrusader]

Martha, no one said you were a terrorist.

Goodness, the liberal speech police are up in arms. Paige makes a comment about the practices of a union and it is painted as a comment against those "who teach America's children."

There is fair criticism that the NEA does not always act in the best interest of the teachers and does not act in the best interests of children.

Paige apologized, but stands by his criticism of the union. The hysteria is only a diversion, to prevent the union from coming under fair scrutiny. How should we spend out critical thinking - over a (poor) choice of words or over the practices of a large, profitable union?

 

[melon]

Yes, but if you use the word "nazi" in reference to the GOP, no matter the context, you'll see a similar hissy fit.

The GOP is, of course, hypocritical, as it uses the word "terrorist" with the same zeal it used the word "communist" for decades. Nothing changes...just the semantics.

Melon

 

[nbcrusader]

Democrats have misused the term "terrorist" as well. Your buddy Matt Drudge posted the following:

Democrat presidential frontrunner John Kerry Has Called Republicans 'legislative terrorists'... MORE... In Jan. 1996, commenting on the federal government shutdown, Kerry called the House Republicans 'legislative terrorists,' who used federal workers as pawns and disrespected them. Asked about his terrorist comment, Kerry explained, 'Terrorists hold hostages, and the Republicans are holding the government hostage'...

 

[martha]

Doug, I am proudly a card-carrying member of the NEA. I, like many others in this country, have serious concerns about NCLB. Paige was indeed referring to me when he labled my professional organization a "terrorist organization."

Yes, he apologized. But he still blurted it out, which meant he was thinking it.

I'm not a part of the "liberal speech police." Sometimes I disagree with the what my organization does, but people need to remember that the union is made of its members.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Martha

NBC, you know know what you're talking about. This most certainly did use that exact word.

He did immediately apologize, though, and this teacher is willing to accept his apology. However, the Dept of Ed needs to realize that teachers oppose NCLB because, among other reasons, it's not funded and kids aren't cookie cutters who can be standardized, as any trained educator who has studied dev. psych and methodolgy and pedagogy knows. Unfortunately, decisions are made about education in this nation by people who AREN'T TEACHERS! Most people don't question lawyers about the law, or doctors about medicine, yet it's assumed that teachers can't be trusted to teach. People believe anyone can do it. (I personal wonder if this doesn't have something to do with the fact that traditionally doctors and lawyers are MEN and traditionally teachers are women, but that's a whole other thread.)

sd

 

[Dreadsox]

While I do not find myself agreeing with some of the things the teacher's union does.....

I agree that NCLB is hurting education.

That said, I do believe schools need to be held accountable, and I do believe it is rediculously difficult to remove a poor teacher.

He should have clarified his remarks from the start.

 

[nbcrusader]

NBC, you know know what you're talking about. This most certainly did use that exact word.

I never denied Paige used "the word", but thank you for your comment.

 

[Sherry Darling]

1. Then what else did you mean by "Martha, no one said you were a terrorist?"

2. You're welcome!

sd

 

[nbcrusader]

Paige's comment was not directed at individual teachers - it was directed at the union.

 

[Sherry Darling]

LOL--that doesn't even pass the Straight Face test NBC.

Since NCLB is all about standardized testing, here's one for ya.
True or false: the Union is made up of teachers.



sd

 

[nbcrusader]

teachers are members of the union.

True or false - the Union educates children.

The union is a separate legal entity, with people on its payroll (making $$$).

 

[Dreadsox]

True or False

The union makes it difficult to remove bad teachers.....



Does spelling count?

 

[martha]

teachers are members of the union.


The union is a separate legal entity, with people on its payroll (making $$$).

You can equivocate all you want, but those people on the payroll are representing me. I am a member of NEA. They act on my behalf. Too many people try to separate the members from the union, thinking they can criticize the union and still not anger the members. Without me, there is no union. The members ARE the union.

 

[Dreadsox]

NB....Why would he apologize if he were referring to Union Leadership. While in priniciple I can understand what the man could be getting at, in this day and age, he used an inflammatory way to make his point. I do not think this was without thought or unintentional. I think it is the begging of election day rhetoric.

It is quite easy to BULLY teachers. It happened here in Massachusetts with Gov. Romney running for office. While I think he is doing an excellent job here in our state, he made US a target. Then one year into his Governorship, he is claiming responsibility for the improved scores in Massachusetts. I do not agree with this.

The union is correct....the $$$ is not there. I was in charge of running the after school programs at my school. Up until three years ago we had NUMEROUS after school programs. Not just fun and games programs, but valuable programs that helped students achieve. We have gone from almost 20 after school programs to ZERO at my elementary school.

The gifted and talented program, which pulled high achieving students out of the classroom to teach them higher level math skills and reading is gone.

The Robotics program, which townwide boasted 27 teams is gone. Four of the teams I coached. Can you imagine the science, math, higher level thinking, journal writing and problem solving that disappeard. In my school, I accepted 20 kids.....usually 50 out of 80 students in the 5th grade would apply to be on our team. My teams were the only teams that had an girls on them because I recruited them. When we won the state championship the girls on the team were the ONLY girls 5th through 8th grade out of 24 teams at the Museum of Science in Boston. The next year when they were on the Middle school team, they were again at the state championship as the runner up.

The Drug programs gone, the health education programs gone.....

I am currently spending on a yearly basis out of pocket somewhere between $500-$1000 a year. Multiply that by two because my wife teaches.

I could go on.....The remark while he directs it at the UNION leadership in his "apology" was uncalled for.

Finally, our class size in the MAJOR test year has gone from 20-22 up to 28-30. This is INSANE. The general public may feel that this is no big deal, but until you have walked through a classroom door and felt the difference between 20 kids in a class to 28 I do not want to hear it. IT is a major influence on the dynamics of a classroom. It is a major influence on the ability of ANY teacher to remediate and prepare for the NCLB testing.

Sooooooo he may label the Union as a Terrorist organization, but he IS doing so to DEFLECT us in a campaign year away from the issues. No one is going to deal with the issues, they are going to argue about what he meant, and everyone, EVERYONE has had a bad teacher that they remember. Very rarely do they remember the good ones.

 

[Sherry Darling]

That's exactly right, Martha, and your choice of "equivocate" is perfect.


NBC--true. As part of the Union, I educated children.

Dread--you're setting up a strawman. The issue is this idiot member of the Bush admin's inflammaotry, almost unforgiveable choice of words.

But since you mentioned it: Considering that I was not paid enough to make my own rent and was expected to put in overtime FOR FREE and ALSO expected to absorb 2-3 months of unemployment a year, your reaction, being wary of All Those Bad Teachers, amazes and saddens and angers me. Are there bad employees in any place? Duh! This overlooks the vast majority of people who break their back for learning and for kids, and do so in a society that tells us we're so valuable that we get to subsidize public education out of our own pockets, and that we're such professionals that we can't even assess our own students. One of the best teachers I know of, whose kids adored him and worked their asses off for him, left after 10 years. Why? He and his wife wanted a baby. He couldn't afford to continue teaching and have a child. THAT's the main reason why there are bad teachers, Dread. Unless you're one of those rare Saints with a Calling, why the hell would anyone want such a job? You pay for and design a system for mediocrity, that's what you'll get.

That felt good. Rant over.

SD

 

[Dreadsox]

Are there bad employees in any place? Duh!

Interesting, so my disliking that the union protects people who ARE not doing their job leads you to believe that I do not respect teachers who do why? Are you DENYING that the UNION protects dead wood?

I would figure that ANY teacher who does a decent job would stand with me on this. There are teachers who are wastes of space and there is a reason that students coming from these classroom are LOSING OUT. 10 of twenty students coming into my class made less than a years growth in reading the year before. Five of them made half a year or less. Two made no growth at all.

We test every year and quarterly to make certain we are making progress. Now, tell me, why should I be happy when my four colleagues at my grade level averaged 3+ years of growth last year with our students. Only one kid from my room made less than a years growth. Why shouldn't I expect the kids coming into my classroom to have made the same? Please note, I am not saying all kids are on grade level, but it should be expected to get a years worth of growth in a year.

 

[Dreadsox]

This overlooks the vast majority of people who break their back for learning and for kids, and do so in a society that tells us we're so valuable that we get to subsidize public education out of our own pockets,

Did you miss my other posting?

and that we're such professionals that we can't even assess our own students.

Nope, I do not believe we can. I would argue that since MA adopted the MCAS test, SAT scores have improved. Outside accountability is important. The system they set up here is screwed. But the results across the board from grade to grade are that there has been a dramatic improvement in writing, reading and math. Clearly if people, teachers, are finding that something has changed....What was it? being held accountable.

[Q]One of the best teachers I know of, whose kids adored him and worked their asses off for him, left after 10 years. Why? He and his wife wanted a baby. He couldn't afford to continue teaching and have a child. THAT's the main reason why there are bad teachers, Dread. [/Q]

That is his experience. Here in Massachusetts, they offered nice signing bonuses to people to come from business into teaching. They did their minimum three years, got their bonus money and screwed. yes, working on a teachers salary is DIFFICULT. But, people know what they are getting into when the signed up. Again, new teachers here in MA must get their Masters in five years or they lose their certificate. Gone.

I do not know why he had to leave. I know it is diffifcult. I have two kids. My wife teaches. We live in a house that allows us to live comfortable. People say it is a "starter home". I laugh at that. It is our permanent home. Not because I would not like a larger home, but because we both like teaching and wanted children and wanted to provide opportunities for our kids. That is what life is, making choices.

Anyone who goes into this business, shouldn't be doing it for the money. And TAXPAYERS deserve to get results for the dollars that they are putting out of their pockets.



[Q]Unless you're one of those rare Saints with a Calling, why the hell would anyone want such a job? You pay for and design a system for mediocrity, that's what you'll get.

That felt good. Rant over. [/Q]

Good...

 

[Dreadsox]

I am not saying teachers do not deserve a decent wage. I have been working every summer but one to help make ends meet over the past eight years. I still have more time with my family than any other father that I know. That to me is worth its weight in gold.

 

[anitram]

How are teachers' salaries in the USA?

My mother was a teacher for a long time (abroad and in Canada) before she became an administrator and was always able to make a very, very comfortable living. Although in her case, she was "overqualified" because of her graduate degrees, but I generally don't hear these sorts of financial complaints out of teachers in Canada as much. No, they're not loaded, but I have never heard anybody quitting so that they could afford having kids. That's just unthinkable to me.

 

[Dreadsox]

Considering that I was not paid enough to make my own rent and was expected to put in overtime FOR FREE and ALSO expected to absorb 2-3 months of unemployment a year, your reaction, being wary of All Those Bad Teachers, amazes and saddens and angers me.

This is what ANGERS me...LOL

There is NO overtime because you are SALARY. SALARY paid for entire year of which you work 180-185 DAYS.

Barely 1/2 a years work.

Think about it.....I have parents working two f-ing jobs to make ends meet. I work 180 days a year and get paid almost $50,000. Keep in mind I have been at this now for nine years.

Yes, I put my time in schooling to get here. Seven years of COLLEGE.

Now part of the PROBLEM is the fact that many teachers do not VIEW this job as a FULL time JOB. It is a job to suppliment their husbands Very FINE income. There is part of the problem with education.

A second problem, is that now having gone through two years of contract negotions on two fronts, through my wife's school and my own...I can say this. The OLDER members of the UNION could give a RATS ass about the younger memebers. In both schools, the OLDER MEMBERS managed to get themselves LARGER RAISES than the younger teachers starting out. That is the TRUTH. Master's + 45 credits added in. Great...a $5000 dollar raise. I have been begging for the Union to Fight for more COURSE REIMBURSEMENT for the younger teachers who have to get their Master's in FIVE years.

My wife was being DISCRIMINATED against because she was pregnant along with five other pregnant teachers. We were preparing a lawsuit. She was told she could not come to school in SEPT because she was due to deliver the second week of school and that she HAD to use her sick time. Ordered to not come to school? What is up with that????? The UNION did nothing. They ran her maternity leave different two different times. One time did not count vacation and weekend days against her. The second child they did. Again the UNION did nothing. She was told that they (the older teachers) had made their sacrafices when they had kids years ago.

They raised my F-ing DUES when I just had a kid and was putting myself through the Masters program, paying for my house, paying for my car {piece of crap 1984 Buik Regal) to "DEFEND us AGAINST the state testing and slander against us. Where did the money go? It went into ADS for AL GORE. NOT to defend us or promote the decent job that teachers are doing. MY $$$$ went ot a candidate that I do not support.

A UNION is about defending rights. I know, because I worked in the HOTEL industry. I am familiar with UNIONS. The Teachers Unions that I have experienced HAVE NOT worked for its members.

[CUT Because my wife fears I will be in trouble by venting this much info about bad teachers protected by the union. I assured her I would be fine, but you never know.]

Why are they there...they are PROTECTED.

There my rant is OVER...HEHE....My mother in-law moves in tomorrow. Maybe I will feel better then. PEACE.

 

[martha]

Matt, your union is crap.

 

[martha]

Again, new teachers here in MA must get their Masters in five years or they lose their certificate. Gone.

And after that, they make a whopping 50 grand? No wonder no one takes us seriously. Try that bullshit in the private sector. Five years and a required Master's?

Could that appallingly low pay scale have anything to do with the quality of the teachers you have to work with? Why would many people stay, take the crap we take, get called names by Federal officials, and then make nothing? They could easily work much less, be appreciated, and not deal with random Federal regulations.

 

[Dreadsox]

Matt, your union is crap.

Ya think...LOL

I am sure there are good ones..... It really depends on the people.

When I am older, my kids are gone to do bigger and better things, and my wife has grown tired of me chasing her around the house....I plan on getting more involved.

 

[Dreadsox]

And after that, they make a whopping 50 grand? No wonder no one takes us seriously. Try that bullshit in the private sector. Five years and a required Master's?

Could that appallingly low pay scale have anything to do with the quality of the teachers you have to work with? Why would many people stay, take the crap we take, get called names by Federal officials, and then make nothing? They could easily work much less, be appreciated, and not deal with random Federal regulations.

I work in a pretty damn good school overall. There are "bad" employees no matter where you go. We are the jewel of the school system. House prices in my area of town are much higher because of the school. I am three steps away from maxing out on the step scale though.

You are not required to have a Masters? Did your "PERMANENT" certificate get taken from you with Education reform so you have to recertify every five years? Paying $125 + 50 Extra for additional certificates?

There really are good teachers in my building...however....there are 7 Elementary Schools, Two High Schools, Two Middle Schools, with plans to Build a new Elementary School, A New Middle School, and a Third High School.

We are advertised as the closest thing your child will get to a private school in a public school setting. Many who leave us for private school come back. This is my first year getting fed students from the 2nd grade because of my grade switch. It really is not fair of me to judge the feeder classrooms on one year. Maybe this is a weak class......It is scary when 10 out of twenty are not on grade level and did not make a years growth. Who to blame?

 

[martha]

Maybe this is a weak class......It is scary when 10 out of twenty are not on grade level and did not make a years growth. Who to blame?

Parents? The very last group to be "accountable?"


No, wait, it can't be them. They vote.

 

[Dreadsox]

Parents? The very last group to be "accountable?"


No, wait, it can't be them. They vote.

My parents? yep, they screwed me up pretty good.....

 

[Sherry Darling]

Dread, I could write you a book here, but its midterm week for me and there just isn't time. Bring it up again later, and I can go into more detail. Briefly, it's a myth that teachers "have the summer off" and work 40 hours a week. Most teachers work at their second job (which we should not even have to have), do inservices or take classes during the summer. You should know that, as a teacher. Sure, it can be done in 40 hours if you leave at 3 and do nothing but xeroxes, but if you want a dynamic, engaging classroom, just not possible. That's how the system creates mediocrity.

Martha, again, bingo.

Back to the books,
sd

 

[nbcrusader]

You can equivocate all you want, but those people on the payroll are representing me. I am a member of NEA. They act on my behalf. Too many people try to separate the members from the union, thinking they can criticize the union and still not anger the members. Without me, there is no union. The members ARE the union.

After sleeping on this, I want to appologize to you and Sherry if I was suggesting that you, as teachers, are "terrorists" or any deragatory term. The teachers I have worked with did not identify with their union to the extent you have described.

My frustration is that the percentage of education money making its way to the classroom is far too small. I would rather see money spent on administration (both for the government and the union) shifted to the classrooms.

 

[martha]

My frustration is that the percentage of education money making its way to the classroom is far too small. I would rather see money spent on administration (both for the government and the union) shifted to the classrooms.

Preach it, brother!!!






(Apology accepted. Incident forgotten.)