I admire this woman!!! And what her thoughts on Islam Are. - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-28-2006, 06:38 PM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




if you want the sunshine of democracy, i suggest you let the US invade Turkey. first, we'll get a UN Resolution that doesn't authorize force, but then say that it does, and then invade you anyway against everyone's objections. then, we won't send it enough troops to guarantee security and will say, "stuff happens," when your museums are looted and death squads funded by iran infiltrate the new military and police forces and then use their uniforms and influence to carry out reprisal killings, often upwards of 3,000 a month but that won't be relevant, see, becuase you will have had a democraticallty elected government, and that's all that matters, even if they don't govern anything and can't even provide a basic level of security to an increasingly radicalized population. soon, medieval Islamic practices will start to seep into your once secular nation, but that will be okay, see, because you have a democracy, so security and modernity don't matter even though people say that it does, it doesn't, because as long as we have a single election to point to, every single thing that has gone wrong really hasn't gone wrong because that single election has retroactively legitmized and justified every single thing that has ever happened because the US is perfect you see, and you want to be like us.
Will you join that vision and join??
__________________

__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 07-28-2006, 06:53 PM   #17
Refugee
 
all_i_want's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,180
Local Time: 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
First off I am not "Afraid" of Islam. No this country is not perfect, we are far from that. Turkey is a country on my "Must Visit" list. But can you answer me why non of the Imams have done nothing to curb the islamic extremist groups or governments?
I think I should first explain the structure of clergy in Islam. The clergy only have as much power as any respected person in a community. And there is no central governing body of clergy in Islam, unlike the Vatican or protestant churches. The calls of individual imams you just would never hear.

Turkey has a central body for its clergy, called 'diyanet isleri baskanligi' (office of religious affairs). Since you asked for a voice condemning terrorism, authoritianism etc., here is a link to a speech by the head of that office, given to NATO representatives.

I guess I can't blame you for thinking people who practice Islam don't condemn terrorism. These voices don't make the headlines. That is why you seldom hear them.

On the other hand, if you want imams beating up extremist terrorists, that not gonna happen. Its not their job. They talk.

http://www.diyanet.gov.tr/english/default.asp

NATO PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY

12th Mediterranean Dialogue Seminar

The Middle East at A Crossroads:New Challenges For East – West Dialogue

Istanbul, Turkey 2 – 4 May 2006

“ISLAM AND THE WORLD IN TRANSITION”

Professor Ali Bardakoglu
President of Religious Affairs,
Ankara, Turkey

Distinguished Guests,

I would like to thank organizers of this meeting for giving me an opportunity to share my views on timely issues which concern not only Islam and Muslims but the whole world. We are living in an age of rapid social, political and cultural change. In my view religion is an important part of this ongoing change. Globalization and communication on the one hand and movement of people, ideas and capital on the other hand are transforming our world.

Dear Guests,

I would like to take this opportunity to address significant issues on Islam and how it relates to politics, human rights, democracy, secularism, and violence in general and state-religion relations, co-existence of Islam and democracy in Turkey in particular. In this context, talking about Turkey is meaningful because it has been a home for peace, toleration and diverse cultures for many centuries.

Distinguished Guests,

Religion has always been one of the sources of collective identity and an inspiration for the establishment of a moral community. What unites great religions is their moral message to the Mankind. Under the influence of modernity, rationality and secularity, religiosity and our perception of religion take different forms. It is true that in some regions and countries religion lost its influence. However, contrary to the expectations of many theories, religion became more vital in some countries. Peter Berger as a well known sociologist of religion observes that we are living in an increasingly religious world. This means that many people take their religion seriously. Religious faith inspires people. Religions answer existential questions for many people today. This is a sociological fact that we should not ignore when address issues involving religion, society and politics.

Distinguished Guests

Let me address relations between religion and politics from Islamic point of view. In my view religions in general and Islam in particular are above politics and also free from politics. It is not a part of political machinery, nor an instrument to be used by political groups or by politicians. However, the reality on the ground is somewhat different. We observe some instances where religion is used to legitimize the political order. When we look at the Muslim world today, we see numerous problems regarding democratization and state-religion relations. We see that in some countries Islam is used to justify current political orders. It is time to take a critical look at the problem of the misuse of Islam for political justification. Islam promotes human rights, political participation, civil initiatives, and justice and equality; it does not oppress ideas in the name of God not it allows the use of religion for political purposes.

Dear Guests,

Now I would like to address one of the most serious questions we face today on a global scale that is violence in the name of religion. We, as Muslims, strongly condemn global terrorism and violence in all forms. Some ill informed people may use religious concepts and rhetoric to justify acts of violence. This is completely unacceptable. On the other hand blaming religions and establishing links between religions and terrorism is also wrong. Such an association hurts the feelings of true believers. Therefore we urge world leaders and politicians not to associate violence with religion because all religions essentially teach peace and condemn terrorism. In fact, more significant matter that provokes terror and violence is the national and international practices of the policy makers. We should also take into account how the local people perceive these practices of insiders and outsiders.

Terror is a concept that is unjustly associated with Islam and Muslims. There is a misconception and misrepresentation on this issue. The Qur'an not only disapproves of terror, but also openly condemns it. Violence and terror do not stem from religion. The Islamic world, as well as the West, should question themselves about what the motives of the existing violence are. It is obvious that religious affiliation, race, ethnic and regional identity can be easily channeled into violence in societies where the distribution of economic income creates vast inequalities and where people lose their faith in their future.

An authoritarian regime, lack of democracy and freedom, injustice, poverty, sense of alienation and deprivation, lack of political participation and civil society, sense of being dominated and exploited lead to radicalism, monolithic understanding of religion and in some cases to violence in the name of God. If there is no mechanism for expressing injustices and grievances, then people may become vulnerable to unwanted influences and resort to non-democratic methods. In order to prevent radicalization of people it is essential to establish democracy, freedom of thought and expression, justice for all and eliminate poverty, exploration and discrimination. Otherwise exploitation of religions may continue in the future.

Dear Guests

I would like to touch upon Turkey to show that Islam and democracy can co-exist. Turkey occupies a unique place among the modern nation states with a Muslim majority population. Turkey should be studied very carefully and its experience with Islam, democracy and secularization should be taken into consideration if one wants to understand the regional dynamics and to find sustainable and logical solutions to perennial problems facing some Muslim societies today. A careful study of Turkey with its deeply rooted legacy will help us to answer the following questions: Can Islam and democracy coexist? How far can religion and secularism be reconciled? To what extent can religious liberty, particularly freedom of religious expression, be extended in a secular state with a majority Muslim population? Turkey convincingly shows that Islam and democracy can co-exist, various faith communities can live side by side in peace. A secular state can be well established and provide religious liberty for its citizens regardless of their religion, ethnicity and denominational convictions. Turkey’s achievements in reconciling religion and secularism, Islam and democracy, pluralism and toleration derive from its history and accumulation of rationality in modern Turkey.

Distinguished Guests

Modern Turkey has the privilege of having diverse religious and spiritual traditions. Turkey is proud of this richness. The political and cultural identity of modern Turkey emerged under the influence of such diverse and multi-dimensional forces that existed in and around Turkey throughout the centuries. Therefore modern Turkish identity and perception of religion in Turkey carry the imprint of diverse influences. Thus, neither the perception of Islam nor the values of identity are fixed, static and extreme.

Dear Guests

I would like to conclude by making a call: We believe that there is an urgent need to establish toleration on a global scale. However, to achieve this objective, politicians, statesmen, civilian organizations and religious leaders should do much more than issuing statements. We, as leaders of faith communities are doing our best to promote values of toleration. Politicians and statesmen should also contribute to these efforts by paying the utmost attention to the sensitivities of people by taking social, political and economic steps for the solution of problems and crises that threaten our future

Thank you for your attention.
__________________

__________________
all_i_want is offline  
Old 07-28-2006, 06:57 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:02 PM
Thank You for that.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 07-28-2006, 07:04 PM   #19
Refugee
 
all_i_want's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,180
Local Time: 11:02 PM
You're welcome. I hope that was sufficient
__________________
all_i_want is offline  
Old 07-28-2006, 07:07 PM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:02 PM
Yes. LOL
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 07-28-2006, 09:24 PM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
It's not Islam as a whole that has moved backwards. It's a lunatic fringe that has always existed, still exists and will always exist. It's in the nature of religions to have lunatic fringes. Mainstream Muslims don't want to kill anyone, and only get violent in self-defense. No one tried to convert me in Turkey. People there knew damn well I wasn't a Muslim. People shouldn't be talking in terms of an entire religion, with a billion adherents, which is the fastest growing religion in the world. I think some people feel threatened, and this is why they are spewing hatred of this religious tradition.
Turkey had the fantastic luck of Mustafa Kemal who destroyed the last vestiges of the Caliphate and effectively castrated Islamic power.

The "lunatic fringe" don't need to twist words, they are the literalists.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 07-28-2006, 09:52 PM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Turkey had the fantastic luck of Mustafa Kemal who destroyed the last vestiges of the Caliphate and effectively castrated Islamic power.

The "lunatic fringe" don't need to twist words, they are the literalists.
You are correct, Turkey was very lucky to have a leader like Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. I only wish there had been more leaders like him, we might not be wrestling with the problems we're currently faced with. Incidentally, I went to Ataturk's Mausoleum in Ankara and saw the guy's personal book collection. The sheer size of that collection was amazing. It's amazing how much that guy knew.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com